D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[Umbran]

You argue in bad faith again! Is this intentional, or are you just not aware of it?

Mod Note:

You use the term "bad faith" a lot. I don't think it applies to this situation. You two have some fundamental disagreements of opinion, but I don't see any major issues of people being misleading or false about the positions.

If you find someone is actually arguing in bad faith, that's the time to walk away from the discussion. It is very much not the time to make the discussion personal, or become accusative.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I'm sorry you have to experience this. Every time I run a campaign, a published adventure, or a homebrewed world, I have a session zero to ensure my players want to play in it. That they accept the premise and understand the theme topics we are going for in the current adventure. It really sucks that some people still have to fight their own players, when trying to host a good time.

Once I started doing this and getting the whole groups buy in, things have never been smoother, and that feeling of if I am doing something wrong or the story isn't fun slips away.

Who said anything about fighting their own players?

I wouldn't trade my guys for anything. Most have been with me for nearly twenty years.

But I wouldn't try to slip something this lame past them.

 

[TheSword]

Who said anything about fighting their own players?

I have the best group possible. It's just that they are mature, educated adults who wouldn't possibly buy into this nonsense. If they were that sort, I would have booted them from my table a decade ago.

Lucky that you don’t buy WOC products then. Remind me why you are commenting on Rime when you haven’t bought it or read it, and aren’t planing on running it?

 

[Wasteland Knight]

Lucky that you don’t buy WOC products then. Remind me why you are commenting on Rime when you haven’t bought it or read it, and aren’t planing on running it?

All of the discussion in this thread is related to an aspect of the adventure (2 year winter) that has been well documented. Is there a requirement that a person purchase a product and carefully read before being able to comment on it?

 

[TheSword]

All of the discussion in this thread is related to an aspect of the adventure (2 year winter) that has been well documented. Is there a requirement that a person purchase a product and carefully read before being able to comment on it?

Erm yes...

Else how do you know how the module has dealt with this problem?

Are you speaking with such authority using second and third hand knowledge? In which case how do you expect people to take arguments seriously that claim the products are trash?

 

[Ovinomancer]

By taking a single line from the 300+ page book and extrapolating from that the assumption that light is a certain way, you’ve taken your extraordinarily-specialist and specific knowledge of real world arctic weather conditions and assumed that because it’s that way in the RL Arctic, that it’s also that way in IWD. It’s your approach that has created the problem.

You could have followed the logical approach and assumed that because trees and some plants and some animals have survived that maybe that Pre-dawn isn’t quite as atrocious as you think it is. But instead you’ve tried to set yourself up as an authority on fantasy world arctic sunlight. As such, you’ve created a rod for your own back and it’s the reason there’s maybe not a lot of sympathy for this position.



Not so. Your way is not wrong. Wanting a more lifelike and understandable world is laudable. However you are an expert in arctic weather conditions. You have access to the Enworld Forums and you’re a smart guy. Fix the problem as you clearly have the capability.

A physics professor shouldn’t complain to lay people about how annoying it is that the typical episode of Star Trek doesn’t conform to the laws of physics and how the makers of Star Trek are waste-men for not making more scientifically accurate episodes. Expressing dismay that all the lay people that just enjoy a good story don’t have a bigger issue with this.

The difference is that with IWD the physics professor actually gets to re-write the Star Trek script and put on their own show! What’s to complain about?

I am not an expert in arctic conditions, I merely remember high school. If a 30 year+ old recollections about geography now qualifies as expert knowledge, we're all in trouble. And, if your argument hinges on me being an expert in artic conditions... well, I'd suggest a better argument.

Actually, you know what, I'll take that back. I've watched the Thing, and Alien vs Predator (the one set in Antarctica), and I played the Long Dark this year, so maybe I am an expert. Oh, I also stayed in a Holiday Inn Express back in February, so, yeah, I guess I am an expert.

 

[TheSword]

I am not an expert in arctic conditions, I merely remember high school. If a 30 year+ old recollections about geography now qualifies as expert knowledge, we're all in trouble. And, if your argument hinges on me being an expert in artic conditions... well, I'd suggest a better argument.

Actually, you know what, I'll take that back. I've watched the Thing, and Alien vs Predator (the one set in Antarctica), and I played the Long Dark this year, so maybe I am an expert. Oh, I also stayed in a Holiday Inn Express back in February, so, yeah, I guess I am an expert.

I think my argument hinges on a simple choice.

Either you speak with authority on the subject that you are discussing and therefore you don’t need advice from the writer of IWDRotFM.

Or you aren’t speaking with authority in which case why are we listening to what you have to say about what is and isn’t possible regarding winter twilight and it’s effect on plant based life.

You have said pretty specifically that Arctic twilight is brutal and insufficient to sustain life, which is interesting because IWD isn’t the arctic and the degree of twilight was never defined. You spoke as if you were an expert in the issue so I deferred to your claimed experience.

 

[Oofta]

What amazes me is that a few lines of fluff which I think could be interpreted in multiple ways means that everything WOTC publishes is total garbage. I mean, we're talking about Forgotten Realms here, which is not exactly the poster child of realism in the first place.

What about the rest of the mod? It's like trashing a car company because you don't like how they did the glove box light. It's making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

Erm yes...

Else how do you know how the module has dealt with this problem?

Are you speaking with such authority using second and third hand knowledge? In which case how do you expect people to take arguments seriously that claim the products are trash?

I never said I hadn't read it. I have. I also think that no one needs to read it to comment on the OP's post.

But l have read it. And it's garbage.

The 2 year winter. The frost wolves who work for a wool mammoth boss. The duegar who aren't smart enough to figure out they leave tracks in the snow while invisible. The druid who is followed around by an awakened shrub. Those are just of the parts that made me laugh (not in a good way) enough to have stuck in my head.

 

[TheSword]

I never said I hadn't read it. I have. I also think that no one needs to read it to comment on the OP's post.

But l have read it. And it's garbage.

The 2 year winter. The frost wolves who work for a wool mammoth boss. The duegar who aren't smart enough to figure out they leave tracks in the snow while invisible. The druid who is followed around by an awakened shrub. Those are just of the parts that made me laugh (not in a good way) enough to have stuck in my head.

Good on you for supporting WOC then even though you find their products garbage. You’ve either bought the product or read the copy of someone who has, increasing WOCs sales and thus ensuring more products as good as this get made!

Thanks, because I also own IWD, think they’ve done a bang up job and hope they keep making many more like it! It’s a great combination of sourcebook, expansion of the rules, monster supplement and campaign!