D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[FitzTheRuke]

I'd like an explanation that makes 2+ years of dark and winter cold make sense, but it doesn't have to have a darned thing to do with science or the real world. I play pretend elf games because I like pretend elf games, and I'm not super keen on being scientifically accurate. However, when a module describes the sun not rising above the horizon, and also says that plants and animals need sunlight to survive, then I'd like to hear how they've already survived two years of not getting any. They set that up, not me.

That's easy, and it's in the adventure: Human Sacrifice to the Goddess of Winter. If sacrificing people didn't do anything, then why would people do it? Presumably, she lays off of places that worship her 'properly' (or grants them some sort of magical boon or reprieve that gets them along. Just enough to keep them sacrificing.)

 

[Flamestrike]

If the magic use is keeping everyone alive, no problem (not sure people are saying that, but it is hard to tell), then the adventure is a lot less urgent and dangerous.

Clearly, imo,, the lack of summer and difficulty getting food is part of the point of the adventure. There should be problems caused by this....there is hunger, there are people sick and dying.......so, the question becomes, how bad is it? How are the towns surviving is part of what is happening in the adventure, at least when I read it. Therefore I'd think asking the question and thinking about the implications (for how you play) is part of what makes the adventure more immersive.

I don't think there is a right/wrong here...people play differently. But, that level of cold for that long? In my world, that would not be survivable by this many people this easily. I'm not sure how I'll change things up, but I'll change some things for sure.

Magic isn't keeping people alive, but its delaying the inevitable.

 

[Ovinomancer]

@Ovinomancer at this point we’re going round in circles. You’re not interested in alternative opinions, just ones that reinforce your own. A long list of explanations have been provided, you’re not interested in that either. When someone is that entrenched, there’s no where else to go.

Not appreciating the impact other fantasy media has on recruitment into D&D is very short sighted. It is no coincidence that D&D’s exploded in popularity at the same time Daenerys’ dragons creating the largest fantasy TV franchise to date. It’s also no coincidence that Avernus draws heavily on Mad Max Fury Road. You say GOT is irrelevant to D&D ok. I find the quote I posted evocative and inspiring... that’s enough for me.

Anyway it sounds like you have your solutions, so good luck with that.

Perfectly fine with alternative opinions, just not with being told what my opinion is. I definitely credit other media as having an impact, and an important one. But saying that GoT had lore of long winters therefore it's okay to do the same in D&D without any effort to explain it is an appeal to popularity. Moving the goal posts and telling me I don't appreciate the influence of other media on D&D because I didn't agree that because GoT was popular that taking only a long winter from GoT automatically made doing it in D&D good is just another bad representation of what I said. I'd appreciate it if you could, for once, respond to me without creating a strawman of what I'm saying or telling me I'm too entrenched to be moved by your arguments. I haven't noticed you being moved much, either, although I'll admit I'm still unclear as to why you think it important to defend the long winter in Frostmaiden, just that you seem to do so.

 

[Ovinomancer]

That's easy, and it's in the adventure: Human Sacrifice to the Goddess of Winter. If sacrificing people didn't do anything, then why would people do it? Presumably, she lays off of places that worship her 'properly' (or grants them some sort of magical boon or reprieve that gets them along. Just enough to keep them sacrificing.)

The word "presumably" is doing a lot of work, there. Also, isn't the sacrifice to Auril done by her most devoted and evil worshippers? Surely the entire 10 towns isn't doing this, and they're all surviving, so even if a few do it it's not an explanation for how everyone's survived for two years of dark and winter, just some. That it needs to be presumed is actually part of the issue -- if this is what WotC intended, surely a sentence or two would suffice to make it clear? Instead, we get the bit about devoted worshippers sacrificing as an evil act and this is worked out to be how the 10 towns has survived so far? That's either a lot of sacrifice or Auril isn't terribly hard to please.

 

[TheSword]

Perfectly fine with alternative opinions, just not with being told what my opinion is. I definitely credit other media as having an impact, and an important one. But saying that GoT had lore of long winters therefore it's okay to do the same in D&D without any effort to explain it is an appeal to popularity. Moving the goal posts and telling me I don't appreciate the influence of other media on D&D because I didn't agree that because GoT was popular that taking only a long winter from GoT automatically made doing it in D&D good is just another bad representation of what I said. I'd appreciate it if you could, for once, respond to me without creating a strawman of what I'm saying or telling me I'm too entrenched to be moved by your arguments. I haven't noticed you being moved much, either, although I'll admit I'm still unclear as to why you think it important to defend the long winter in Frostmaiden, just that you seem to do so.

Because two years of winter is cool.

Because GOT showed us a picture of harsh endless winter and looks a bit scary and a good location for an adventure or two.

Because horror/sci-fi films set in dark icy climates are classics.

Because six months of winter is not much more than what Scandinavian countries experience and doesn’t feel like an apocalyptic event.

Regarding not being moved, I spent a good while compiling methods people suggested to explain how life could survive. I found it very interesting.

 

[TheSword]

The word "presumably" is doing a lot of work, there. Also, isn't the sacrifice to Auril done by her most devoted and evil worshippers? Surely the entire 10 towns isn't doing this, and they're all surviving, so even if a few do it it's not an explanation for how everyone's survived for two years of dark and winter, just some. That it needs to be presumed is actually part of the issue -- if this is what WotC intended, surely a sentence or two would suffice to make it clear? Instead, we get the bit about devoted worshippers sacrificing as an evil act and this is worked out to be how the 10 towns has survived so far? That's either a lot of sacrifice or Auril isn't terribly hard to please.

No, because some sacrifice food and some sacrifice warmth. It’s all detailed in the book. They’re not all sacrificing humans but some are. They’re all sacrificing something.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Because two years of winter is cool.

Um, this is a reason?

Because GOT showed us a picture of harsh endless winter and looks a bit scary and a good location for an adventure or two.

GoT didn't actually show us this, it told about it, and used it as a looming specter of doom to propel action, something Frostmaiden can easily leverage without already having two years of it to explain away.

Because horror/sci-fi films set in dark icy climates are classics.

100% agree -- and two years of winter already gone and not adventured in is wasted and requires explaining.

Because six months of winter is not much more than what Scandinavian countries experience and doesn’t feel like an apocalyptic event.

Oh, this is very, very much not so. There's a big difference between winter and spring in Scandinavian countries, or winter and fall. The sun not coming up for six months would be catastrophic.

Regarding not being moved, I spent a good while compiling methods people suggested to explain how life could survive. I found it very interesting.

Cool, you agree that the two years needs to be explained, and found some good explanations. I'm glad we found common ground.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The word "presumably" is doing a lot of work, there. Also, isn't the sacrifice to Auril done by her most devoted and evil worshippers? Surely the entire 10 towns isn't doing this, and they're all surviving, so even if a few do it it's not an explanation for how everyone's survived for two years of dark and winter, just some. That it needs to be presumed is actually part of the issue -- if this is what WotC intended, surely a sentence or two would suffice to make it clear? Instead, we get the bit about devoted worshippers sacrificing as an evil act and this is worked out to be how the 10 towns has survived so far? That's either a lot of sacrifice or Auril isn't terribly hard to please.

Every excuse that's been used in this thread is, in the very least, implied in the adventure. I suspect it's probably (at least partly) by design that there isn't one way for everyone to have survived up until now. Perkins especially seems to like to leave lingering notes for DMs to riff on.

I think nearly everyone agrees that "two years; no light; minus fifty" is too much. Then again, the book says that people, plants, and animals are struggling, but still surviving, so I don't think that it's too much to assume that one shouldn't take that premise too strictly (unless they really want to, for whatever reason).

 

[Ovinomancer]

No, because some sacrifice food and some sacrifice warmth. It’s all detailed in the book. They’re not all sacrificing humans but some are. They’re all sacrificing something.

The poster I responded to used Human Sacrifice. If you'd like a different argument, I'm all ears.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The poster I responded to used Human Sacrifice. If you'd like a different argument, I'm all ears.

I didn't intend for you to take it as the grand total of possibilities.