D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[MichaelSomething]

one does not mandatory imply the other.

There's only so much room in an adventure book. Or so much time you can spend on writing stuff. Another option would be to increase the cost of the book so that there are more resources to devote to internal consistency.

 

[Shardstone]

There's only so much room in an adventure book. Or so much time you can spend on writing stuff. Another option would be to increase the cost of the book so that there are more resources to devote to internal consistency.

This book does not need an increased cost to justify a few more pages or to justify having increased resources to make it internal consistent. These things are what we are paying for already for $50.

Maybe a lot of Enworld just has no idea how much $50 is worth to people who aren't financially well-off?

 

[Chaosmancer]

So you a bunch of you would be cool if the adventure cut three or four encounters and filled those pages with situation exposition and world logistics instead?

One of my proposed solutions was a sidebar. Not even a full page.

So, how about cutting a piece of art? Would you mind getting one less half-page of art in exchange for more robust world-building? Or maybe we can cut out something else. Heck, Mad Mage had at least one entirely pointless encounter that I know took a lot of text to explain. Maybe Rhime has an encounter that is basically just "hungry wolves attack you" that could be cut with no loss.

We've had over 300 posts arguing about less than .01% of the mod. Because WOTC didn't explicitly detail out something that most groups are going to not notice, ignore or the DM is going to have to spend 5 minutes adjusting to suit their idea of realistic. The posters complaining base their judgement on modern standards without accepting that some regions have had nearly total crop failures in the past yet people survived.

I don't expect reality simulation from anything D&D, I don't see why anyone would expect it now. What were they supposed to do? Hire a group of climatologists, historians, experts in sub arctic flora and fauna to write a scientifically accurate paper? Because honestly I have no clue what changes to the climate would have to be made to get the level of desperation implied by the mod. While I haven't read the mod my take is that if things don't change, the north is looking at a near extinction level event for surface dwellers. It has to be bad. How bad? Heck if I know.

If you think the description is too harsh (or not harsh enough) change the 3 sentences involved. For example it's spring of the 2nd year and it's getting worse, not better. They're starting to get desperate. While they had barely enough resources to make it through the past year they won't survive another. Tweak the temperatures so the lowest values only happen now and then, adjust the con DC to whatever value makes sense. Done.

If there are major problems with the structure of the rest of the mod, fine. I haven't read the mod I have no clue. But this? Meh.

Will most groups notice it? Maybe. Can't say. Seems like everyone is going to hear the part in question, it is after all, the hook of the adventure.

As for a team of climate and flora experts? No. I don't think they needed that. But, this is not something that requires that level of expertise in the first place. Most plants work on a yearly cycle. It has been two years with no sun (or very little sun) and no spring, so no pollination or creation of new seeds for annuals which literally die after a year.

I don't need to be an expert in climate and plants to realize that that is a "bad thing" after a year. After two years, I would expect everything to be dead. But we are being told that it will be at least two and a half to three years for the plants and animals to be at risk of dying? That doesn't make sense.

And could I change it? Yes, of course I could. But just because I can change the entire timeline of the adventure plot they created, doesn't mean that it is a good thing that I had to do that.

And, since I saw you bring it up in your other post, and I know these discussions can ramble, I will repeat again. I'm not saying the adventure is worthless, or that WoTC is incompetent. This sort of writing happens all the time in Fantasy. I get that. But, this isn't a background detail, or a strange setting piece, this is the entire premise of the adventure. That's a big deal, isn't it?

 

[Oofta]

That's a big deal, isn't it?

If it bothers you, tweak it. "Last summer the sun barely came up, not nearly enough to melt all the snow. This year spring isn't coming and the days aren't getting longer." Done.

So no, it's not a big deal IMHO since it took all of 30 seconds to think of something that makes more sense if you want.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I don't think anything really even needs to be changed, other than not taking a few sentences in the adventure word-for-word literally. Other than those few sentences, which I think are oversights, the adventure heavily implies that the trouble has been PROGRESSING for two years, not that it suddenly went from NORMAL to DARK COLD WINTER one day without warning. It really doesn't spell out that it means for anyone to take it that way. It's also the simplest "change" to make - over two years it got worse until it's this way NOW. Go adventure!

 

[Oofta]

Maybe part of my problem with some of the complaints is that a lot of people are saying that the basic premise of the mod is broken*. I disagree, but it's more that while I may disagree with the details of the description of what Auril is doing and may tweak it, the basic premise of the mod is that you have a (literally) cold hearted god bent on permanently freezing the region.

If I tweak the details a bit (or say the changes have been gradually getting worse) so that people are still alive but fearing for their lives but not already dead, that doesn't change the premise of the mod. Just adjusts the fluff a bit to be what I would consider more realistic.

*At least some people are saying the entire mod is horrible because of this detail.

 

[Guest User]

Maybe a lot of Enworld just has no idea how much $50 is worth to people who aren't financially well-off?

Books or Food is a tough spot to be in.

In dollars adjusted for Inflation, modules today do not cost more then the $15 that such omnibus editions like Temple of Elemental Evil and Demonweb pits cost.

I think the Omnibus Giants/Underdark/Demonweb pits has half the page count of Rime's 300+ page count.

Of course more of something you dislike, does not make it better.

WotC could chose to make changes. that could allow less expensive production runs, like B&W maps and artwork. That does not seem to be a model that D&D is currently interested in though.

 

[Laurefindel]

If it bothers you, tweak it. "Last summer the sun barely came up, not nearly enough to melt all the snow. This year spring isn't coming and the days aren't getting longer." Done.

So no, it's not a big deal IMHO since it took all of 30 seconds to think of something that makes more sense if you want.

In this case, the fact that it is easy to «fix» isn’t what makes it a big deal or not. It’s that the turn-off happens in the opening sale pitch of the adventure. That is a big deal to many, even if it isn’t to you.

 

[Guest User]

It’s that the turn-off happens in the opening sale pitch of the adventure. That is a big deal to many, even if it isn’t to you.

Great don't buy the book....why slander it, when it doesn't appeal to you?

This a D&D module....even products acclaimed to be good or great by the masses are still hated by many.

Tomb of Horrors is a crap adventure. It is memorable, someone likely will die, but it is a gimmicky train ride to death. For some this is a feature!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

In this case, the fact that it is easy to «fix» isn’t what makes it a big deal or not. It’s that the turn-off happens in the opening sale pitch of the adventure. That is a big deal to many, even if it isn’t to you.

Out of curiosity, would you have liked the premise if they had explicitly spelled-out that the situation progressed to Dark Cold Winter over two years of steady decline?