Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #4: Druid

Welcome to the fourth Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the first 10 levels of game’s druid class.

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[rules.mechanic]

The changes to wildshape are interesting. I like the idea but I'm not sold on the execution. Adding THP instead of getting access to a new set of hit points is something I hope sticks around. But I would scrap the rolling and just do THP=Druid Level. Maybe max of 10. Embraced Ferocity could double the THP and any max level of THP.

I like the minimum AC but would prefer 12+Wis mod. It's technically the same range of ACs but with the ability to start higher and hit the max sooner. Certainly more powerful but perhaps that is the tradeoff for the reduction in overall HP. I may draw up a couple stat blocks and see how they compare side by side.

I wonder if it could even be THPs of d4 x Druid Level, with no max. The creature often has higher HP than the druid and it seems a little unfair that the druid-wolf or druid-tiger is the scrawny one in the litter. With a5e having less transforms (but lasting longer), that shouldn't be OP.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I wonder if it could even be THPs of d4 x Druid Level, with no max. The creature often has higher HP than the druid and it seems a little unfair that the druid-wolf or druid-tiger is the scrawny one in the litter. With a5e having less transforms (but lasting longer), that shouldn't be OP.

I'd scrap the die rolling myself. In my own remake of the game, use 2x Druid level for the THP, 3x for the moon druid equivalent. Its play faster than throwing a bunch of the wort die ever on the table

 

[NotAYakk]

I agree. I actually like the ''trophy gathering'' feature, but for a rangers.

Gathering component worth would be awesome. One thing I still use in my 5e game from 4e is the generic magical components used for rituals (and other costly spells): Sacred Incense (Divine), Rare Herbs (Primal), Alchemical reagents (Arcane). So instead of a diamond worth 500 gp, the cleric spends 500 gp worth of Sacred Incense. So in A5E, the druid could have a feature where, once per long rest, he can gather 1d4 x 5 gp worth of Rare Herbs.

How about I propose a step further.

Components for spells could be in there, but a herbalism subsystem would be better, so you can imbue your harvested stuff with magical effects that others can consume.

Most potion systems in 5e have this entire "you can keep 2 of them around". We could keep that, but I think with some math you can actually dispose of it.

A party of level X characters can defeat a certain amount of CR per adventuring day; in fact, if you "add up CR" you get something that scales very similarly to the XP multipliers times the XP values of monsters.

If the effects of the herbalism ingredients scaled with the CR of the harvested ingredients and went bad relatively quickly (on the scale of days or a week or so), the amount of "active herbalism" you can have around and your income of said ingredients would become reasonably bounded without any gamist limitations.

Of course, this might be too complex. And definitely nothing you'd want to hoist on every druid. And if it has mechanical heft, it needs a decent power budget. So maybe a subclass sized thing, not an exploration feature.

Oh well.

 

[BlivetWidget]

Cantrips: A large part of me thinks druids should just automatically get druidcraft for free.

Agreed, I also feel wizards should get prestidigitation for free. They're both extremely thematic spells with such a high roleplaying value and such a low adventuring value that they really shouldn't have to compete for your limited choices with cantrips like firebolt, mage hand, frostbite, etc. (Yes yes, we have all theorycrafted ways of setting the world ablaze with prestidigitation but let's be real, we mostly just use it to look cool lighting candles or disapparate our poop). Any druid without druidcraft feels silly to me, any wizard without prestidigitation feels the same.

 

[Horwath]

If you wanted to play around with Wildshape, you should have done something similar to Shapeshift variant druid in 3.5e from PHB2.

that was the simplest and most elegant wild shape in any edition.

so here is my try on it for 5E.

Wild shape: at-will,
Action to change form/bonus action for moon druids. Cannot cast spells in wild shape form.

1st level form; Predator; 4 legged medium size mammal or reptile, 50-200kg
strength gain +2/+4 for moon druid
movement: +10 land speed/+20 for moon druid
attacks: 1d6 bite attack/1d8 for moon druid
AC: 11+dex/12+dex for moon druids

3rd level form: aquatic, medium size fish, can breath only in water
str gain: +0/+2 for moon druid
movement: swim speed equal to land speed/+10 bonus moon druids
attack: 1d4 bite/1d6 for moon druids
AC: 10+dex/11+dex moon druids

6th level:
fly form, medium size bird
str gain: +0/+2 for moon druid
movement: fly speed equal to land speed/+10 ft for moon druid
attack: 1d4 talons/1d6 for moon druids
AC: 10+dex/11+dex for moon druids

ferocious predator form: large 4 legged mammal or reptile
str gain: +4/+8 for moon druids
movement: normal land speed/+10 ft for moon druids
attacks: bite 1d6/1d8 moon druids, claws 1d6/1d8 moon druids. Multi attack: 1 bite attack, 1 claw attack(2claws attacks at 10th level)
AC:12+dex/13+dex

10th level form
Treant form; huge plant
str gain: +4/+8 moon druids
movement: land speed -10 ft/ normal land speed for moon druids
attacks: slam 1d8/1d12 moon druids. Multi attack: 2 slam attacks
AC: 15/17 for moon druids

 

[Quartz]

I've had a quick read and this caught my eye:

or two uses of your Wild Shape feature to recover an expended spell slot of 6th level or lower

The more I think about this, the more I dislike it.

6th level spells are big guns and high level druids have many uses of Wild Shape. You're effectively giving them several extra 6th level spell slots. You might want to cap it at 5th level, not 6th; maybe even 4th level. And no more than the character's Proficiency Bonus. Compare an 11th level Druid who converts all her Wild Shape uses with an 11th level Cleric.

I would also suggest making it explicitly a Druid spell slot of 5th level or lower, to prevent multiclassing cheese. Something like, "After you cast a Druid spell of 1st to 3rd level, as a Bonus Action you may expend one use of your Wild Shape feature to recover the spell slot. After you cast a Druid spell of 4th or 5th level, as a Bonus Action you may expend two uses of your Wild Shape feature to recover the spell slot. When you use this feature you may not use it again until you have finished a Short or Long Rest." Maybe even sacrifice 3 uses for a 5th level slot.

I think Ley Line Awareness is very cool and you should expand on it. Dig out your copy of Shadow World and look up the Flows of Essence. For example, perhaps a Druid's party moves faster when travelling along a ley line. Or spells can get metamagicked or heightened when cast at the crossing of two or more ley lines.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

If you wanted to play around with Wildshape, you should have done something similar to Shapeshift variant druid in 3.5e from PHB2.

that was the simplest and most elegant wild shape in any edition.

so here is my try on it for 5E.

Wild shape: at-will,
Action to change form/bonus action for moon druids. Cannot cast spells in wild shape form.

1st level form; Predator; 4 legged medium size mammal or reptile, 50-200kg
strength gain +2/+4 for moon druid
movement: +10 land speed/+20 for moon druid
attacks: 1d6 bite attack/1d8 for moon druid
AC: 11+dex/12+dex for moon druids

3rd level form: aquatic, medium size fish, can breath only in water
str gain: +0/+2 for moon druid
movement: swim speed equal to land speed/+10 bonus moon druids
attack: 1d4 bite/1d6 for moon druids
AC: 10+dex/11+dex moon druids

6th level:
fly form, medium size bird
str gain: +0/+2 for moon druid
movement: fly speed equal to land speed/+10 ft for moon druid
attack: 1d4 talons/1d6 for moon druids
AC: 10+dex/11+dex for moon druids

ferocious predator form: large 4 legged mammal or reptile
str gain: +4/+8 for moon druids
movement: normal land speed/+10 ft for moon druids
attacks: bite 1d6/1d8 moon druids, claws 1d6/1d8 moon druids. Multi attack: 1 bite attack, 1 claw attack(2claws attacks at 10th level)
AC:12+dex/13+dex

10th level form
Treant form; huge plant
str gain: +4/+8 moon druids
movement: land speed -10 ft/ normal land speed for moon druids
attacks: slam 1d8/1d12 moon druids. Multi attack: 2 slam attacks
AC: 15/17 for moon druids

This is exactly what the 5e playtest did. You gained a few form that modified your stats, a few THP and a size change. At higher level, said forms gained different bonus.

 

[Faolyn]

If you wanted to play around with Wildshape, you should have done something similar to Shapeshift variant druid in 3.5e from PHB2.

that was the simplest and most elegant wild shape in any edition.

so here is my try on it for 5E.

The problem is, this assumes that druids only wildshape for combat purposes. In my first 5e game, the druid changed into a spider to do some scouting. In a more recent game I ran, the first time the druid wildshaped, it was into a cat so he could escape a mob. And I could easily see a druid turning into horse or something to help carry a heavy load.

So something like this would need to include options for non-combat purposes as well.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yeah that sucks.

When I got to DM a Moon Druid the first time, the player was my youngest kid, probably around 6 at that time. I went to the SRD and found all the animals of the maximum CR the druid could turn into, asked the kid which ones were most cool, and printed them out on a single page (although just in case, I also printed more of them on the back of the same page). When the Druid levels up and unlocks better beasts, we print another page, so for example now we have a separate page with 5-6 good aquatic creatures. They are just extra pages along with the character sheets. We never consult books at the table.

I had Land Druids also, but for them wildshape is not really meant for combat. I wouldn't even recommend to print out stats in that case, because when you use it for exploration it's enough to know movement speeds and stealth/perception scores in almost all cases. We can check the SRD if necessary, and if the player uses a beast often, they can write a couple of numbers on their sheets.

It's a shame that the books blambers about trivialities sometimes and don't teach you how to organize yourself, then make you feel something's wrong with the game and you need to buy more to fix it. We are well organized and it IS fun.

My experience is similar where the moon druid literally just tracks hp on the printout and the every other druid pretty much uses things like "a cat", "a rat", "a $bird", arc because its probably going to be hit if anything level appropriate looks at it and is probably almost certain to do in that attack. With no meaningful skills from beasts the non-moon druid really only needs to remember that an owl has +3 stealth& cat +4 stealth

 

[Horwath]

The problem is, this assumes that druids only wildshape for combat purposes. In my first 5e game, the druid changed into a spider to do some scouting. In a more recent game I ran, the first time the druid wildshaped, it was into a cat so he could escape a mob. And I could easily see a druid turning into horse or something to help carry a heavy load.

So something like this would need to include options for non-combat purposes as well.

well, on 3rd level we could add small animal, and on 5th level tiny animal.
I.E.
3rd level
small size:
-2 str/ +0 str for moon druid
speed: -10 ft for land and burrow speed/+0 speed for moon druids
damage: claws 1d3/1d4 moon druids
AC: 11+dex/ 12+dex moon druids

5th level:
tiny animal:
-4 str/ -2 str for moon druid
speed: -10ft land and climb speed/ +0 speed for moon druids
damage: bite 1d2/1d3 moon druids
AC:12+dex/13+dex moon druids

str/damage/AC bonuses/speed are all lower in my suggestion for all non-moon druids so they are not that good for combat.