D&D General Nature Clerics vs. Druids?

[Zardnaar]

A Nature Cleric worships a God of Nature. A Druid worships Nature.

That hasn't been true since 2E at least.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

A Nature Cleric worships a God of Nature. A Druid worships Nature.

Except, neither of those are strictly true in 5e, as I pointed out here:

A lot of people in this thread have been saying that Druids don't have to worship a deity, but clerics do, but that isn't true in D&D 5e. In 5e, clerics don't have to worship a deity, they can worship a process of the multiverse (like death, life, nature). Druids in D&D 5e do draw their power from nature spirits and deities, but don't have to worship them.

So, how I would distinguish between the two is that nature clerics worship nature or a nature deity, while druids are the embodiment of nature, drawing power from certain aspects of it (the moon, the land, death, fire and rebirth, etc).

 

[Zardnaar]

Except, neither of those are strictly true in 5e, as I pointed out here:

That's not a 5E thing it's a 2E thing.

4E had the "bright" idea of power sources. Dumbest idea ever.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Here's some quotes to prove that druids don't have to worship nature or nature deities:
First, from the SCAG's druid section:
"The druids of the Realms venerate nature in all its forms, as well as the gods of the First Circle, those deities closest to the power and majesty of the natural world. That group of gods includes Chauntea, Eldath, Mielikki, Silvanus, as well as Auril, Malar, Talos, and Umberlee, for nature is many-sided and not always kind.

Unlike clerics, who typically serve a single deity, druids revere all the gods of the First Circle in their turn, and see them as embodiments of the natural world, which moves in cycles: creation and destruction, waxing and withering, life and death.

Although they are most strongly associated with sylvan forests, druids care for all aspects of the land, including frozen mountains, burning deserts, rolling hills, and rough coasts."
Next, from the PHB's Druid section:
"Druids revere nature above all, gaining their spells and other magical powers either from the force of nature itself or from a nature deity."
Lastly, also from the PHB, but this is from the Nature Cleric section:
"Druids revere nature as a whole and might serve one of these deities, practicing mysterious rites and reciting all-but-forgotten prayers in their own secret tongue. But many of these gods have clerics as well, champions who take a more active role in advancing the interests of a particular nature god. These clerics might hunt the evil monstrosities that despoil the woodlands, bless the harvest of the faithful, or wither the crops of those who anger their gods."

So, to conclude from what 5e tells us, Druids don't serve a deity of nature to get their power and they don't worship nature, they instead just draw their power from nature through revering and venerating nature. They act as embodiments of nature in all of its various forms, from the fires, floods, storms, and wildlife of the wilds. Nature clerics instead worship the concept nature or a nature deity/deities. As clerics no longer have to worship a deity and can instead worship a the concept of their domain, nature clerics are the ones who can worship nature.

 

[Zardnaar]

2E stuff with Faerunian deities. Main point is clerics, druids and specialty priests serve the deities.

Back then you had to serve a deity but to me it's not either/or. Clerics and Druids can both draw their power from deity, nature or something else.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So, I really dislike Nature clerics thematically. Especially since there have been a few "differences" between them that really I find annoying.

"Druids aren't integrated into society because they are more primitive"
"Druids are connected more Barbaric, older traditions"
"Druids are the Old faith"
"Druids are tribal shamans"

All of this seems to seek to Other the Druids, in a way that doesn't make sense to me. Additionally, I personally just do not like the Nature Deity as a concept, in a world where Nature and the spirits within it are capable of giving power similiar to what a God gives anyways. There is just no need for the conceptual space.

So, I tend to make space by getting rid of Nature clerics. I don't really see a place for them, or Nature Gods. They could fit in as worshipping the harvest, but I'd prefer to have a deity of civilization and focus on other domains.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That's not a 5E thing it's a 2E thing.

4E had the "bright" idea of power sources. Dumbest idea ever.

Really? Because "Martial, Arcane, Divine and Psionic" were all invented well before 4E. Fourth Editions biggest contribution was to give us Primal, to help make Druids different.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I don't really see a place for them, or Nature Gods.

These deities would like to speak with you. Why shouldn't nature gods exist in D&D worlds?

 

[Zardnaar]

Really? Because "Martial, Arcane, Divine and Psionic" were all invented well before 4E. Fourth Editions biggest contribution was to give us Primal, to help make Druids different.

4E set them in stone though.

All clerics are divine.

2E had divine clerics, philosophy ones and Elemental.

It's why they made silly choices in 4E Darksun.

Some world's might not have druids but might have nature clerics.

Other world's druids but no nature clerics.

Other world's like Greyhawk and Faerun will have both.

 

[Chaosmancer]

These deities would like to speak with you. Why shouldn't nature gods exist in D&D worlds?

I didn't say they can't exist, but I just don't see a place for them. Or, if I did, then there should be no Druids and they were just clerics.

See, the problem I have is thematic overlap. If Obad-Hai is the god of Nature and has been around since "the old times" then who are the Druids worshipping? If they worship Obad-Hai, then why aren't they clerics?

It feels appropriate that Druids and Nature are beyond the Gods. It is not a domain where they rule. Then it makes sense to refer to Druidism as an "older" faith, because they worship something that is not in the realms of the Gods. They commune with the World itself. Why do they have such different powers? Because they come from a completely different place.
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4E set them in stone though.

All clerics are divine.

2E had divine clerics, philosophy ones and Elemental.

It's why they made silly choices in 4E Darksun.

Some world's might not have druids but might have nature clerics.

Other world's druids but no nature clerics.

Other world's like Greyhawk and Faerun will have both.

Okay, what makes an Elemental cleric different from a Divine one, if there is a God of Fire that they both worship?

And if there are no gods, but you can worship a divine philosophy, then you can still have clerics, so a lack of gods would never effect a cleric.

I'm very tired, so maybe I'm not making much sense, but it seems odd to blame 4e for something that existed long before 4e. Maybe they codified it a little more obviously, but "Wizards use Arcane Magic" is something that has been true since 1e, Fighters are Martial has always been true. 4e just said up-front what every other edition whispered in a dozen places.