D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[Fenris-77]

I live on Baffin Island, which has a predominantly Inuit population. There are no trees here for campfires, no wood at all occurs naturally. Traditional heating in winter here is done via an oil fueled lamp. Other Inuit populations elsewhere have access to wood, but the ones in the high arctic do not. It takes less than you'd think to heat a small insulated room like an iglu, especially when people are dressed for the weather.

 

[Oofta]

When it comes to this topic there are things we know, things we know, things we don't know and how to deal with it.

We don't know

• What the effect would be on plant life that goes dormant for the winter. Unlike hibernating mammals (really?) plants don't have much if any metabolic activity while dormant. Seeds can be dormant for at least 2,000 years(1).
• Whether or not the current situation is indeed exactly what's been happening for 2 years. We know the sun doesn't rise now, but has it always been that bad or did it just not rise very far last year? AFAIK the mod doesn't specify.

We know

• Auril has cursed the land and is plunging it into never ending winter.
• Some of the text may be somewhat contradictory (I haven't read it).
• Populated areas have survived years of failed crops, sometimes multiple years of failed crops. I would assume that the same regional effects are going to be affecting wildlife as well.

How to deal with it

• Throw the book out (if you've even read it) because it's total BS. A book based on fantasy fiction should be scientifically accurate (without studies or facts to back up what the science would be).
• Endlessly, repeatedly post about how awful it is that a mod like this gets published. If you do offer advice state it in terms of "They should have included these options".

or

• Admit you have no clue when it comes to the impact of an extended winter this bad because it's never happened in recorded history, and no, you are not an expert on the topic.
• Accept that the mod has perceived flaws. Maybe they should have included some options, but they did not so acknowledge that complaining will not change a thing.
• Offer advice on how to adjust it to be more enjoyable while still giving the same feeling of "if this is not fixed soon we're all doomed".

What's funny is that I did a quick google for reviews. I stopped after 3 because the conclusions were similar. "Rime of the Frostmaiden is well worth the trouble." "It’s a book I’ll definitely be using in future campaigns." "The first half of Rime of the Frost Maiden is good, and the second half is great. But the final exploration of Ythryn is spectacular."

Not a single mention of the "glaring immersion breaking issue" of how long the winter has lasted. Almost like it's something people won't notice, will gloss over, or just accept it because it's a fantasy world. Where have I seen someone say that before? Oh, right, I did a long time ago.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Yep. Every adventure is a book of ideas. Ideas that can be used to create a story for your players to go through and experience. And to be ultimately useful for as many DMs as possible, it's going to give as many ideas that are thematically linked or narratively linked or mechanically linked as possible... knowing full well that every DM prioritizes each of things differently. Some bits will be fully embraced, some will be thrown away as garbage. Some ideas will make a DM says "That is AWESOME! I can't wait to use this and play this!" and some ideas will make the same DM say "Ugh! Who thought this was necessary? This is stupid!"

And every single idea in the book will be found on both sides of the list just based on the sheer number of DMs.

I mean heck... even something as simple as boxed text will bring out the stalwarts saying "Thank god they included this!!! Why doesn't every module have this?!? I have a busy life, I don't want to have to scour the text in the section to know what does and doesn't need to be revealed!" And it will also bring out the haters that will say about the exact same boxed text "Why the hell do they keep including this stuff?!? It's always written horribly, all stilted and showy, and it doesn't in any way serve the story I'M telling to my players! Let ME decide what is important to reveal, don't force it on me! Why can't the adventure writers understand this yet?!? They've been doing this for 40 years!!!"

Now... take these attitudes and multiply them by the several thousand other ideas found in every book and we now know how it is literally impossible to write something that everybody is going to find useful in the exact same format that the book presents it in. It never has happened, it's not going to happen, and if your go-to response is "I'm paying them $50 for this! It should happen, gosh-darn it!!!", you need to get a bit of a reality check.

Considering that these adventure books are not novels to be read cover to cover and have these intricately detailed plots that makes complete sense like an Agatha Christie mystery... but instead are merely the repository of a HUGE bunch of (hopefully) thematically compelling ideas that are meant to invigorate and inspire DMs in designing the stories they wish to tell in whatever manner they wish to tell them... thinking a cohesive, narrative whole is at all important or useful to the most amount of people is missing the forest for the 2-years-in-darkness trees.

 

[Burnside]

• Whether or not the current situation is indeed exactly what's been happening for 2 years. We know the sun doesn't rise now, but has it always been that bad or did it just not rise very far last year? AFAIK the mod doesn't specify.

In fact, it explicitly DOES say that she effectively switched the sun off summarily, not gradually.

"Each night before midnight, Auril takes to the sky on the back of a white roc and weaves her spell, which manifests as a shimmering curtain of light—a beautiful aurora that illuminates the night sky and fades before dawn. This powerful magic prevents the next day’s sun from rising above the horizon, turning midday into twilight and trapping Icewind Dale in winter’s dark embrace, with no sunlight or warmth to melt the snow and ice."

"Ferocious blizzards make the mountain pass through the Spine of the World exceedingly treacherous, and this land has not felt the warmth of the sun in over two years."

You should probably read the book before you set about telling people how wrong their critiques are.

Seriously, why the compulsion to leap to the defense of something you haven't actually read? Aren't you concerned that you may not, you know, know what you're talking about?

 

[Burnside]

Considering that these adventure books are not novels to be read cover to cover and have these intricately detailed plots that makes complete sense like an Agatha Christie mystery... but instead are merely the repository of a HUGE bunch of (hopefully) thematically compelling ideas that are meant to invigorate and inspire DMs in designing the stories they wish to tell in whatever manner they wish to tell them... thinking a cohesive, narrative whole is at all important or useful to the most amount of people is missing the forest for the 2-years-in-darkness trees.

The thing is, I'm very capable of coming up with cool and fun locations, ideas, are characters for one-off adventures, or loose, episodic campaign.

What I find more challenging is creating a sweeping, cohesive narrative that spans a campaign ranging from levels 1-10 or 1-12. So yes, above all, that is in fact what I'm hoping for when I buy a campaign book. I want the overarching, broad-strokes story to be there, hold together, and make sense. I'm happy to alter areas, characters, and encounters as I see fit. But I want the bones of the story to be solid. That above all is what I want for $50.

I can make a cool ice dungeon or magical prison or haunted shipwreck by myself. I can make a disturbing vampire gnoll or a comical gnome mindflayer or an obnoxious ghost wizard.What I'm looking for are the solid narrative threads that tie them together.

What I see when I read this book is a lot of talented writers doing some really strong detail work, and a real lack of a big-picture guiding hand or editor doing the work of weaving it all together coherently and consistently. For some DMs, that may be great. Maybe they have the opposite of my issue - they can make up their own campaign-spanning story (or they don't really even want one), but they're looking to cannibalize individual side-quests, characters, and encounters - this is a good, even GREAT book for that.

 

[Fenris-77]

Anyone who wants to get all tangled up based on a single line of fluff text is probably having less fun than me. I never worry about crap like this, I can change it or tell the story slightly differently if I want to, or I can treat like the text of a story where the description has some dramatic license baked in. If the players care about the question they can play to find out and we can find out how the 10 towns survived winter's embrace together.

 

[TheSword]

First you ask for scientific evidence that trees would die in cold and dark for two years. When you're pointed to evidence that trees die off at much higher temps if denied a growing season, you make a strange argument that implies tree lines don't shift, sometimes suddenly, with local climate changes. Now you're complaining that the discussion is about how trees live in cold temps. The goal posts are shifting so fast here that I'm dizzy.

I think you may be looking at something different to me. I read the links - they appear to make it clear that strong woody plants can survive. Then again, I say “who cares”... enjoy some Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

544 ratings on amazon of which 86% give 5 stars and 10% give 4 stars. Average 4.8 out of 5. It’s clear that the general population doesn’t share the disparaging views of detractors in this thread. The votes speak for themselves about how well this book has been received.

Its the same people, saying the same stuff now. Time to let this thread wander off into the blizzard alone?

 

[Oofta]

In fact, it explicitly DOES say that she effectively switched the sun off summarily, not gradually.

"Each night before midnight, Auril takes to the sky on the back of a white roc and weaves her spell, which manifests as a shimmering curtain of light—a beautiful aurora that illuminates the night sky and fades before dawn. This powerful magic prevents the next day’s sun from rising above the horizon, turning midday into twilight and trapping Icewind Dale in winter’s dark embrace, with no sunlight or warmth to melt the snow and ice."

"Ferocious blizzards make the mountain pass through the Spine of the World exceedingly treacherous, and this land has not felt the warmth of the sun in over two years."

You should probably read the book before you set about telling people how wrong their critiques are.

Seriously, why the compulsion to leap to the defense of something you haven't actually read? Aren't you concerned that you may not, you know, know what you're talking about?

Short version: instead of looking at the mod as a whole, I'm going to continue to harp on one thing with laser like focus on a couple of lines of fluff that I disagree with.

As far as my posts I'll repeat. I think giving opinions and advice on how to increase the enjoyment of our hobby (even if a mod has two lines of fluff I find problematic) is useful. Endlessly complaining about something I will never change is not.

 

[Cadence]

Short version: instead of looking at the mod as a whole, I'm going to continue to harp on one thing with laser like focus with a couple of lines of fluff that I disagree with.

You did read the title of the thread and the original post, right? ;-)

 

[Fenris-77]

You did read the title of the thread and the original post, right? ;-)

You did read the actual post he was replying to, right?