D&D General On the subject of Hobgoblins

[SkidAce]

A lot of my games do not have orcs in the home region as the PCs. I always liked the goblin, hobgoblin, bugbear mix to provide a range of levels for the PCs to fight. I find it hard to justify so many groups of races living in the same area competing for resources. The orcs were pushed out to another region. Things change in the campaign when the PCs need to venture to the other side of the mountain and meet them for the first time.

I bamished orcs from my setting completely.

I use goblin, hobgoblin, and bugbears for the majority of foes, ogres to mix it up (and for ogre magi), and gnolls around the periphery of the campaign.

 

[Charlaquin]

Hobgoblins are the fighting Uruk-hai — an improved, sunlight resistant race of goblins, bred by the Dark Lord to conquer the world.

I like this take. Not how I prefer to handle them, but a solid interpretation indeed.

 

[Ancalagon]

We have stereotypical wandering Hobgoblins as being the now-mostly-barbaric remnants of a very ancient highly-advanced technological civilization, who have largely lost track of their own history. Quasi-civilized ones also exist, living almost in unintentional parody of what they used to be and with little if any more knowledge about their old tech than anyone else.

The barbaric ones are whatever non-Good alignment they want to be. The quasi-civilized ones are Lawful to a fault, and almost completely dissociate themselves from the barbaric Hob's.

There's way way WAY more to it than that - probably about half a book worth - but I won't bore you with it here.

Intriguing...

In my game, the goblins were the "fallen" ones. They had a very advanced civilisation (the Ancients) that collapsed following a war with a race of powerful - almost divine - beings (the fomorians). The fomorians were defeated by the use of a blanket of ice (the ancients triggered an ice age) but their leader, Balor, lord of death, had time to hit them with a counter curse. Realizing that the Ancients would have anticipated and prepared for a death curse, he instead cursed them to forget...

 

[Azzy]

Hobgoblins might have a bit of an identity issue in D&D as in many ways they're sort of "Organized Orcs" in many interpretations. And while I certainly go with the idea that they're just another offshoot of the Goblinoid races which are quite genetically adaptable given the number of various Goblin subraces including Blue, Koalinth, Bugbears, Dekanter, Nilbogs, Bakemono and so on, I feel that many other people probably have Hobgoblins as a hybrid race like half-Goblin half-Human or Orc. So in many ways it comes down to if Humans are this, and Orcs are that, than what are Hobgoblins?

Klingons. Oh wait, others have already said that.

In a homebrew setting that I'm lazily putting together, there is a nation of hobgoblins (yet to be named). They have a militaristic, honor-bound elite (much like knights or samurai) and a fairly rigid society. Goblins tend to be a commoner class (but can advance based on individual merit). I haven't really figured out where bugbears, nilbogs, and blues fit it, but it's still in the early state. They have been occasionally belligerent and expansionist, but fair to their satrapies. While currently fighting a border war (with whom, I'm still working on), they are currently more involved in trade and commerce (both native exports and as a trade route through which goods from the western lands reach the main human empire.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

In my campaign, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, goblins, bugbears, etc, are all actually one people - "Orschans", and descended from a mutated form of humans/elves/gnomes. (Hence the propensity to inter-breed).

Orcs are effectively the nomadic, tribal Orschans, Hobgoblins the elite, settled, ruling caste, and goblins the intellectuals and artisans.

 

[Minigiant]

One other thing about Hobgoblins.

I like keeping Hobgoblins and all gobliniods very separate from Orcs and other evil humaniod races. This is because of the way that D&D tends to handle evil races. Players really don't get into the weeds of evil politics unless you are playing an evil game. You might read up on Orc religion or Drow housesbut this info doesn't really affect the game much. You fight these beings.

So when you fight this monsters and the races are in the same group, it is easy to miss the details of the different monsters in the crowd. Especially for nonmaical humaniods. How different is a hobgoblin warlord leading a 8 goblin mooks fromaorc warlord or a drow warlord or gnoll warlord. They all were just Hit Die wrapped in armor.

This is one thing 4e tackled when as their monster blocks where designed to make monster feel more different. A hobgoblin could feel very different than an orc in combat. And since combat is how you mostly interacted with them, that was huge. 5e does the samein a much lesser extent. But in the other editions, you could really lose the differencness of a hobgoblin for an orc in combat. And only a DM's exaggeration of their personalities would make a hobgoblin warrior feel different from a orc warrior. But it would be nother more than an european knight and japanese samurai different, different look same fighter.

That's why I like keeping hobgoblins seperate. Because you'd at least have that physical divergence even if mechanically they feel the same. And it lets you push the mechanic more. It makes more sense that hobgoblins have better AC and have Conquest paladins where orcs were furs and use berserker barbarians in they are 2 different groups.

Because why don't the stronger orcs use the same armor and weapons the hobgoblins don if they are using the same armory and forge?

 

[Davinshe]

I think of hobgoblins having diverged a great deal from their original state. Initially they'd have been just bigger, stronger goblins with little to differentiate them. Then Maglubiyet lost out to other savage deities and they decided to upgrade to a more successful deity rather than fading in influence along with their old deity. Thus their culture dramatically shifted from other goblins.

 

[Iry]

Hobgoblins are the fighting Uruk-hai — an improved, sunlight resistant race of goblins, bred by the Dark Lord to conquer the world.

Same. I see Hobgoblins as Uruk-Hai, as opposed to Orcs.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't get the Uruk-Hai thing.

In LOTR, Uruk-Hai are stronger orcs with better equipment.
In D&D, Orcs are the stronger one but hobgoblins have better equipment.

Making Hobgobs into Uruk-Hai kinda does the Warhammer thing with Black Orcs and Generic Orcs. It only works for stories and wargaming. It flops on RPGs side as its more individual and small numbers. Even if you go BlackOrc/IronJaws and SavgeOrcs/Bonesplitters as GamesWorkshop did, you still need quantity higher than the D&D average to feel it.

 

[GreenTengu]

I don't get the Uruk-Hai thing.

In LOTR, Uruk-Hai are stronger orcs with better equipment.
In D&D, Orcs are the stronger one but hobgoblins have better equipment.

Making Hobgobs into Uruk-Hai kinda does the Warhammer thing with Black Orcs and Generic Orcs. It only works for stories and wargaming. It flops on RPGs side as its more individual and small numbers. Even if you go BlackOrc/IronJaws and SavgeOrcs/Bonesplitters as GamesWorkshop did, you still need quantity higher than the D&D average to feel it.

Actually, WarHammer has Hobgoblins too-- but they are barely ever mentioned or used. They attempted to utilize them in WarHammer Fantasy during the 1990s, but the market just couldn't support that many armies in the model game.

But the Hobgoblins there are between the size of goblins and orcs, basically just exactly human-sized with almost exactly human stats, but are obsessed with constantly betraying each other. They do seem to be marginally more technologically advanced than either the Orcs or Goblins though as they can make proper swords and proper armor and such. And they have the ability to actually shoot at things and hit them. Or maybe they just have an easier time looting such things as human-sized stuff fits them perfectly. Though even knowing to bother to loot such things indicates a higher intellect than either of their cousins.