D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[Jack Daniel]

And I suppose you are right, that we can't really force someone to change their values, but this is one of the few times that I feel the resonse "then just write a novel" is appropriate. If you really can't allow anyone to change your world, if it must be your singular vision, then a cooperative DnD world where the players can affect the entire setting and permanently change it, is not for you.

DnD is a cooperative Team Game. "The DM is a player too" means that they are part of that team. If they don't want to play a team game and cooperate with others, then why are they playing DnD?

And maybe I'm taking it a step further than you envision. Maybe they are only against their "canvass" being touched by "the art critic" when they are in session 0, and after that the players are free to do whatever they want... but I get the feeling that someone who sees the work of world-building in the manner that they are a painter working on a canvass is going to have that "whatever they want" followed by "within the limits I allow"

What did I say before about being deliberately obtuse? You know full well that world-building is one thing and the player characters affecting the game-world through in-game action is quite another. Conflating the two is at best a failure of logic and rhetoric, and at worst intellectually dishonest.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Minigiant]

I also think this is pretty much a strawman. Do DMs really do this? I mean, I guess some DM somewhere might. Then the players leave and it's no longer an issue. Maybe it's a stickman? Might exist

There are more DMs that I would like to believe who get to DM solely because there are is a low DM to player ratio and not because they are that good. I can't imagine they are a large percentage. However the percentage has to be high enough that DM power trips have traveled enough to be a known thing.

And by definition, a player has to stop being a player in order to craft a world they would like and put it on the table.

That's why to me, the best solution, is to make DMing easier. So that more DMs can give players experiences they want and not "settle for" DMs they only are okay with. The easier we make DMing, the faster bad DMs lose tables.

 

[Oofta]

That's why to me, the best solution, is to make DMing easier. So that more DMs can give players experiences they want and not "settle for" DMs they only are okay with. The easier we make DMing, the faster bad DMs lose tables.

Then how, specifically, do you make DMing easier?

Because for me, tools like DndBeyond have made my life easier. If I was into mods I could buy the mod and I would have everything at my fingertips. But that's a technological solution and price will be a barrier for some people.

 

[Minigiant]

Then how, specifically, do you make DMing easier?

Because for me, tools like DndBeyond have made my life easier. If I was into mods I could buy the mod and I would have everything at my fingertips. But that's a technological solution and price will be a barrier for some people.

Worldbuilding tools. There tons of organizers but few tools to fill them.

One of these days imma make a country sheets that you could roll up just like a character.

 

[Remathilis]

Right after the 4 races it mentions the exotic ones.

Ask DM.

All the splatbooks optional and basic rules only 4 classes.

Does that imply that the DM should always allow the four Basic classes and races?

(I know what people are going to say, but technically they PHB had no "ask the DM" about the common races, just the uncommon ones. And there is actually nothing about classes in the PHB).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

There are more DMs that I would like to believe who get to DM solely because there are is a low DM to player ratio and not because they are that good. I can't imagine they are a large percentage. However the percentage has to be high enough that DM power trips have traveled enough to be a known thing.

And by definition, a player has to stop being a player in order to craft a world they would like and put it on the table.

That's why to me, the best solution, is to make DMing easier. So that more DMs can give players experiences they want and not "settle for" DMs they only are okay with. The easier we make DMing, the faster bad DMs lose tables.

One way to make DMing easier is to limit options. My advice to newbie DMs would be to do this, at least initially. Start small. Do not worry about any extra books with optional content, just say that they aren't in use, at least for now. And if the PHB seems overwhelming, it is fine to limit things even further. Design some small area for play, low level adventures don't really need much.

 

[Remathilis]

I also think this is pretty much a strawman. Do DMs really do this? I mean, I guess some DM somewhere might. Then the players leave and it's no longer an issue. Maybe it's a stickman? Might exist somewhere but so rarely that it's not relevant?

But even if they did, it still boils down to personal preference. Since I can't read someone else's mind I don't see what difference it really makes. If someone is just being an ass, I probably wouldn't want them as a DM anyway. Bad DMs are bad DMs.

Well, I do know of a DM who it became an open secret that he hated paladins and druids (this was 2e) and no matter what you did, he'd engineer scenario's to make you lose your status. Come to think of it, he was pretty harsh on clerics and thieves too. Never said no, just made your life miserable if you did.

You can kinda see why I'm gunshy about "trust me" DMs...

 

[Oofta]

Well, I do know of a DM who it became an open secret that he hated paladins and druids (this was 2e) and no matter what you did, he'd engineer scenario's to make you lose your status. Come to think of it, he was pretty harsh on clerics and thieves too. Never said no, just made your life miserable if you did.

You can kinda see why I'm gunshy about "trust me" DMs...

I think everyone who has played for long enough has a bad DM story or 10.

Like the DM that thought it would be fun to see how many creative ways he could kill off PCs. Fun things like roll a die, look at the list of PCs and declare that "Joe" was dead because a giant hand came out of the wall and smashed him. He had us roll up 2 each which should have been a warning sign and then over the course of the session killed them off one by one. My PC almost made it but I just gave up and he committed suicide.

Bad DMs will be bad.

 

[Maxperson]

Does that imply that the DM should always allow the four Basic classes and races?

(I know what people are going to say, but technically they PHB had no "ask the DM" about the common races, just the uncommon ones. And there is actually nothing about classes in the PHB).

This is in the PHB Introduction.

"Some worlds are dominated by one great story, like the War of the Lance that plays a central role in the Dragonlance setting. But they're all D&D worlds, and you can use the rules in this book to create a character and play in any one of them.

Your DM might set the campaign on one of these worlds or on one that he or she created. Because there is so much diversity among the worlds of D&D, you should check with your DM about any house rules that will affect your play of the game. Ultimately, the Dungeon Master is the authority on the campaign and its setting, even if the setting is a published world."

That very clearly implies that nothing is out of bounds for not being in a specific setting. It's also in the very introduction for a reason. It's letting the players know not to assume that any particular thing will be in the game.

 

[Jaeger]

You can also take the converse of this: if a DM can only envision their world with a limited number of playable races... you get the point. Please note I am not saying you personally are inflexible or unwilling. Just that the logic on this bullet point is faulty and ignores the baseline assumption that everyone comes to the table to play in good faith. Jerk players/DMs can ruin any game. You are clearly not in that category if you have had an ongoing campaign for decades.

If a DM has stated up front what the restrictions are for his game; then he has acted in good faith.

The potential player knows the deal, and can either accept it, or move on.

Or, for players that might be invited to join mid-campaign, some negotiation might take place to accommodate said player in ways that don't break the campaign world.

Can a potential player ask to be something a little different? Sure!

Say I get invited to check out Ooftas group...

I ask: "Hey that sounds pretty cool, but dude, I totally want to be a Drow Ranger! Maybe we can workout a backstory where I reject the wicked teachings of my culture, and strike out on my own with my animal companion and dual-wielding shortswords..."

Oofta: "Sorry Bro, that doesn't work with the lore of my world, and what we've established in the current campaign so far. Gotta pick from what's set out Dude..."

Me: "Ok. Sweet, I'll pick one of the other options then." Or: "Ok maybe this really isn't for me then, thanks though, see ya!"

What would not be cool would be for the potential new guy to try and debate with Oofta about why he needs to change stuff for him.

(Of course if anyone would actually dare suggest the above Drow ranger concept - Oofta and all his current players would be well within their rights as set out in the Magna Carta to horsewhip such a person until they have removed themselves beyond the city limits.

...How are DMs different? Are DMs so perfectly aware of everything that they know with absolute certainty that because they think halflings look stupid a game that includes Halflings can never be fun for them? They can never enjoy the game at all, in anyway, unless everything inside that game fits their personal taste to the T?
...

No one is claiming perfect awareness for DM's.

But if a DM has laid out the terms of his campaign, he has acted in good faith.

There is no moral obligation of any kind for them to make exceptions for an individual, when other potential players had no problems conforming to the core assumptions of his campaign world.

So that potential player needs to decide what he wants to do. Abide by the campaign guidelines, or vote with his feet.

People acting in good faith have no problems with those options.