D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[overgeeked]

So here is where you and I are viewing the exact same thing, and with much of the same assumptions, but come to a totally different conclusion.

1. It is a physical fact (in our world) that a horse cannot climb a rope ladder because of the laws of physics.
2. It is a physical fact (in our world) that a human being cannot run up a bamboo shoot and perch atop it because of the laws of physics.
3. You and I both, as a GM, would allow a PC human to run up a bamboo shoot because D&D physics isn't real physics.
4. You and I, as GMs, disagree about allowing a PC centaur to climb a rope ladder because we don't agree on whether or not D&D physics would allow it.

It is TOTALLY WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS AS A GM to tell the centaur player that they are never going to be able to climb a ladder if that is how you feel that your game should run, but then allowing a human player to run vertically up a stalk of bamboo makes your centaur position hypocritical.

Only if that human is a 9th-level monk with the Unarmored Movement class ability that specifically allows that to happen. Without that, there's no way anyone is running up a bamboo shoot. And no, I wouldn't allow someone, even a 9th-level monk to stand atop a bamboo shoot. Because it specifically calls out that you have to be moving for it to work. You can't end your turn on water and still be dry at the start of your next turn. Likewise, you can't end your turn atop a bamboo shoot and still be there at the start of your next turn. And all that because a specific class has a specific ability that allows it. Not "just because it's too hard to deal with" the fantasy world otherwise, as is the case with the mythical climbing centaur. Make every centaur take 9 levels in monk. Problem solved.

 

[Scott Christian]

So here is where you and I are viewing the exact same thing, and with much of the same assumptions, but come to a totally different conclusion.

1. It is a physical fact (in our world) that a horse cannot climb a rope ladder because of the laws of physics.
2. It is a physical fact (in our world) that a human being cannot run up a bamboo shoot and perch atop it because of the laws of physics.
3. You and I both, as a GM, would allow a PC human to run up a bamboo shoot because D&D physics isn't real physics.
4. You and I, as GMs, disagree about allowing a PC centaur to climb a rope ladder because we don't agree on whether or not D&D physics would allow it.

It is TOTALLY WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS AS A GM to tell the centaur player that they are never going to be able to climb a ladder if that is how you feel that your game should run, but then allowing a human player to run vertically up a stalk of bamboo makes your centaur position hypocritical.

Hmm... I guess my view is still not clear.
Number 1 - agreed.
Number 2 - agreed.
Number 3 - agreed.
Number 4 - disagree with your premise we disagree. I do not disagree with you.

The DM is totally within their rights to allow a centaur to climb a rope ladder, castle wall, and run on bamboo stalks.

I disagree with others taking offense and arguing to the moon and back against the DM that says the centaur cannot do this. If the DM says they can't because of the physics, then it is settled. They can't - because of physics. As has been pointed out through dozens of coherent and logical arguments. When a person decides none of those arguments matter, you know, because dragons can fly, then that is wrong. Because those same people also have their suspension of disbelief box.

What they are doing is insisting their box is better than yours by the mere fact of arguing against the DM's clear and obvious reasoning.

 

[FrozenNorth]

This is amazing Ezekiel. I very well thought, well worded argument.

Yet, it ignores a session zero. A time and place the DM sets parameters.

AND THEN THE PLAYER ERODES TRUST AND RESPECT BY CHOOSING A RACE (from most likely dozens) THAT IS OUTSIDE THE PARAMETERS.

I think your conception of Session Zero is different from that of Ezekian Raiden and me.

Session Zero is where all parties talk about parameters and, if there is time, create their characters. But the character ideas should have already been discussed.

 

[embee]

Only if that human is a 9th-level monk with the Unarmored Movement class ability that specifically allows that to happen. Without that, there's no way anyone is running up a bamboo shoot. And no, I wouldn't allow someone, even a 9th-level monk to stand atop a bamboo shoot. Because it specifically calls out that you have to be moving for it to work. You can't end your turn on water and still be dry at the start of your next turn. Likewise, you can't end your turn atop a bamboo shoot and still be there at the start of your next turn. And all that because a specific class has a specific ability that allows it. Not "just because it's too hard to deal with" the fantasy world otherwise, as is the case with the mythical climbing centaur. Make every centaur take 9 levels in monk. Problem solved.

To make this a more concrete example, the difference is Li Mu Bai standing on a bamboo shoot and Mr. Ed climbing a ladder.

Li Mu Bai standing on a bamboo shoot is possible, not because he is a human, but because he is a legendary warrior whose status as a martial arts master has been demonstrated over the entirety of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, shoring up the viewer's suspension of disbelief.

Mr. Ed cannot climb a ladder (or go rock climbing) because his actual anatomy does not allow his legs and hooves to climb a ladder or grip a cliff face and any attempt to shoehorn that ability in around his actual physical anatomy would destroy the viewer's suspension of disbelief.

 

[Minigiant]

Everyone talking about centaur climbing.

I'm thinking about how centaur parent but dolls for their sons to practice combing their long flowing manes.

"Remember son. Chicks dig a guy who can comb their manes and tails. So if your hair is messed up, you'll never get any fillies. Ya dig"
"Yes Papa."

That's why I would wanna be a centaur. To be a violent hairdresser/barber.

 

[embee]

Everyone talking about centaur climbing.

I'm thinking about how centaur parent but dolls for their sons to practice combing their long flowing manes.

"Remember son. Chicks dig a guy who can comb their manes and tails. So if your hair is messed up, you'll never get any fillies. Ya dig"
"Yes Papa."

That's why I would wanna be a centaur. To be a violent hairdresser/barber.

The Centaur's Shampoo

https://www.amazon.com/Mane-Tail-Shampoo-Conditioner-32-Ounce/dp/B0046KG8DS

 

[Scott Christian]

I think your conception of Session Zero is different from that of Ezekian Raiden and me.

Session Zero is where all parties talk about parameters and, if there is time, create their characters. But the character ideas should have already been discussed.

Good point. I have always used session zero to explain the world. Other DM's I have played with have done so as well. Then the player comes up with a concept. Some DM's, ones you already know, really don't need to do a lot of explaining. But others may.

So in your session zero, the players and DM comes to the table. They discuss the characters they already created. Then they discuss, as a group, the realm or world they are going to play in? House rules? Starting level, alignment, etc? Then, if there is time, they make the characters.

Is that accurate? I am just guessing, so I really don't know since I haven't had that experience.

 

[Umbran]

Whist a mountain goat can climb a cliff better than a human can, it can't climb a rope...

No. Because it doesn't have hands. However, put hands on a goat-centaur, and the deed becomes rather plausible.

The problem with a horse-centaur is mass. The horse body weighs half a ton, so that it becomes implausible that arms will have sufficient strength to lift it.

Thus, we think the centaur can't climb because it is a Medium-sized torso on an overall Large sized critter.

 

[Scott Christian]

Everyone talking about centaur climbing.

I'm thinking about how centaur parent but dolls for their sons to practice combing their long flowing manes.

"Remember son. Chicks dig a guy who can comb their manes and tails. So if your hair is messed up, you'll never get any fillies. Ya dig"
"Yes Papa."

That's why I would wanna be a centaur. To be a violent hairdresser/barber.

Reminds me of a write up I have for one of the stables in one section of my world.

Fleetfoots

The best stables in the Sovereign lake region can be found in Fleetwood, at the aptly named Fleetfoots. The owner, a vling named Rosy Star, is husband to the wealthy vineyard investor, Dandelion Star. A horse’s visit to Fleetfoots will have it rested, and as most know, looking and smelling different.

Rosy delights in using her husband’s coin to have the horse’s leave looking elaborate. Most horses will have their mane braided with inlays of flowers, their tails will be awash with perfume, and sometimes, even the saddle or horse is painted. Her last creation, the horse’s head was painted blue, and was wrapped with a silver harness that had an ivory horn. She renamed the horse Bluenicorn. The owner, a Dwarven merchant was so dumbfounded he said nothing. He was later seen riding his horse and apologizing, decrying, “You gotta believe me Bucks, I had no idea she was gonna do that!”

If one does not mind Rosy taking artistic liberty with their mount (and many wealthy travelling to Crimson do not), Fleetfoots is a good deal. The horses, despite the pageantry, are well fed and cared for, and the price is reasonable.

 

[overgeeked]

Good point. I have always used session zero to explain the world. Other DM's I have played with have done so as well. Then the player comes up with a concept. Some DM's, ones you already know, really don't need to do a lot of explaining. But others may.

So in your session zero, the players and DM comes to the table. They discuss the characters they already created. Then they discuss, as a group, the realm or world they are going to play in? House rules? Starting level, alignment, etc? Then, if there is time, they make the characters.

Is that accurate? I am just guessing, so I really don't know since I haven't had that experience.

To me, session zero is everything that takes place before the start of the first actual game. Even if it isn't literally a big group meeting in meat-space etc. Everything from "I'm thinking about running a game" up to the opening narration of the first game session is "session zero" to me.