D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

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Petty to you. To others, balance. And still to others, a way to stay within that suspension of disbelief.

Let us be clear - this is NOT a balance issue. The character does not somehow become stunningly mechanically powerful due to having the ability to climb stairs. The character's DPR doesn't skyrocket into unreasonable places, the character does not gain the ability to grab more than their fair share of spotlight, or the like, for the ability to get to the next level of the dungeon just like everyone else.

This is simulation. As I noted, it took me all of 30 seconds to find videos of horses dealing with basic stairs, so I am not convinced this is a good, well-researched simulation that folks should find satisfying. It looks... like a rather arbitrary application of preconceived notions, to be honest.

And in a game/world with fire breathing dragons threatening towns, wicked necromancers trying to take over nations, the interesting bit is, "can I generally climb stairs without falling down". In terms of the stakes in the fiction, whether the character can generally get to a second floor... isn't the big question of the day.

So, yeah, this is petty. Small. Of little import to the world.
 

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Agreed. The DM works with the player. That is what that means to me. If it is more than one player (I have never seen it, but I am sure it happens), then you probably need to scrap the idea. That would be my suggestion. When a DM says, I want to run the "We Be Goblins" campaign from Piazzo, ok, cool, we are goblins. Unless a few players are like, I don't want to play that. Then, scratch the campaign.
I guess I just don't see any given concept as so air tight, or so...idk important?...that I'd default to "play as is" vs "scrap the whole idea", when "modified the concept in small ways to accommodate the players" is also an option.
The concept of time, as has been noted, is important. It is clutch, in my opinion, of the entire argument. Early on I asked how long a campaign was and got a few answers. For my students, I tell the DMs to count on running this for a half year. A big commitment, considering at that point 5 months is like a super long relationship to them.
But if your campaign is a few years, I would think (imho) that the DM should probably bend a lot - like an awful lot, if you are asking the players to make a commitment of that length. My campaigns for my curated world are short, which is one of the reasons I have the views that I have. I, as a player, play in generally 3/4 to year long campaigns. (Double or triple mine.) That (again imho) is more than a fair time for the DM to set almost any limit they want.
Here's the thing that amuses me about these discussions. We probably mostly actually play and run the game about the "same", accounting for stylistic, thematic, etc, difference and probably different houserules, etc. But the basic process of the game is about the same once things are rolling.

What I'm saying is, in my group we recognise the voluntary group social activity nature of dnd by the fact that the DM doesn't ever present a fully fleshed out campaign concept and say, "I'm running this next. Whose in?" Instead, a member of the group says, "Hey I've got an idea for a game, what do you think?" and the concept forms into a campaign concept as the discussion develops, and we try to make sure that the whole group is accounted for. Even in the short story arc games, we try to have as much player buyin before characters are even made as possible.

I'll often start with, "Hey, John, what sort of character would you be interested in for a game where everyone is a wandering duelist/fighter/swashbuckler/similar, and a "Great Hunt" has just been called, the ultimate chance for glory and honor, and wealth and fame?" or "Hey, Mel, would you be interested in playing a game where everyone is tied strongly to a powerful Church analogous to The Church in medieval Europe, and the group is brought together to solve a problem for said Church, exploring issues of faith, standing against darkness, and protecting the faithful? (the details that all PCs would probably be knights of the church, with maybe room for the equivelent of an Orthodox Knight having been sent from Constantinople by his Bishop, or an alchemist-priest whose expertise is related to the case, etc, would come after Mel says that such an idea is interesting to her, and would be open to debate. Or I might start with the "All Knights of Faith" pitch, if that is the main thing I want from the campaign.

In one instance, I mentioned in a group chat that I'd had an idea bouncing around my head for ages called Church Mice, where we play mice of Faith of The Light who are working to protect the faithful, including the clumsy blind humans who call The Light "God" and build grand cathedrals in "his" honor, from The Darkness. The idea being that we are mouse knights and such living on the grounds of Notre Dame or some other great cathedral, and the game is more about investigation and understanding a threat and then working against it, than it is about running in holy swords blazing. Keep our efforts secret from the big folk, dogs are also protectors but can only help so much because they sort of between the human and critter worlds, cats are dangerous and often villainous but some also fight The Darkness, and so alliances can very carefully be made (heck I'd allow a Fey warlock as a character who made a pact with an Elder Cat), etc. It's very Mouse Guard in concept, but we don't like the mechanics of that game so it will be DnD with a lot of reflavoring.
And, as we talked about it, my buddy Drew chimed in that he'd love to run that, and I know he'd kick ass at running that concept, so I've handed it over to him and it is on "on deck" list for the group.

Anyway, the point is that recognizing the authority of the group doesn't actually change the game that much. It's still rude to interrupt play to challenge a ruling, you save that for the break or after the session or whatever. It's still the DM's job to run the world and the players' jobs to run their character. It's just that because we don't, as a group, accept the idea of the God DM, no such thing exists at our table. Because the God DM is entirely something that exists only because the group consents to it.
 

Is there some reason we don’t count basic ?

I'm sorely tempted to say something snarky here about anti-grognard sentiment, but really it's probably just because Classic D&D doesn't fit so neatly into the simple "nth edition is preceded by (n − 1)th edition and followed by (n + 1)th edition" paradigm. It was a fork from 0E, different enough from it to clearly be another edition, and yet also still billing itself right in the text as "the Original Dungeons & Dragons Game!" as late as Mentzer's red box Basic Set. (The inside cover of Mentzer's Expert Set even explains that it's the official replacement for the white box rules for D&D characters above the 3rd experience level. And, y'know, back in the 90s it wasn't uncommon at all to refer to Classic D&D as "OD&D.")

To my way of thinking, you have Original D&D (white box and blue box); and Classic D&D (pink box, red box, and black box), which is effectively a revision of Original D&D to about the same degree that Advanced D&D 2nd Edition is a revision of Advanced D&D 1st Edition. Classic is, in effect, OD&D 2.0, or if you think of OD&D (Holmes and earlier) as "0E," then Classic (Moldvay and later) is "0.5E".

Um... the races talked about here are:
Drow - 2nd edition
Dragonborn - 4th edition (maybe 3rd edition, I really didn't play 3rd very much)
Tieflings - 4th edition (maybe 3rd?)
Centaurs - 5th?

So most of these are 20 years old. I don't think that is "new." Even in the geological timekeeping that is D&D.

Drow - 1st Edition (Unearthed Arcana, 1985); Classic got "shadow elves" in 1990 (GAZ13)
Dragonborn* - 3rd Edition (Races of the Dragon, 2006; 2nd Edition had "saurials" in the CBoH)
Tiefling - 2nd Edition (Planescape, 1994)
Centaurs - Classic in 1989 (PC1), 2nd Edition (Complete Book of Humanoids, 1993)

(*Curiously, a race of dragon-men called "Dragonewts" first appears in the Sega Genesis game Shining Force in 1992, a game even more obviously based on the BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia edition of D&D than 1987's Final Fantasy is. They are very similar to how dragonborn are later characterized in D&D.)
 
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Is there some reason we don’t count basic ?

There is some weird paralel design going on as it ran completement to AD&D rather than sequentially with it. I tend to count it as an offshoot that eventually merged back with the main game, and that's not to diminish my love for it.
 

If that is how your DM wants to run the table, ok. I don't think I would like it.

But really, how do you read my comment, the one where I say the DM needs to find a balance between simulationism and pacing and come up with a snarky, non-equivocal, along with a clear DM disposition of being rude.

Petty is negotiable. Just like someone being cheap, or more appropriate, strict. Would you care if the DM waved the climbing rules for centaurs? How about if the DM waved them, and then three of the players said, "That seems silly. They move 40', more than anyone else. There should be a penalty to their climb?"
Petty to you. To others, balance. And still to others, a way to stay within that suspension of disbelief.

You are punishing (again) the centaur for something he already is being punished for. Lets look at the actual rules:

Equine Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push or drag.
In addition, any climb that requires hands and feet is especially difficult for you because of your equine legs. When you make such a climb, each foot of movement costs you 4 extra feet, instead of the normal 1 extra foot.

So, a centaur CAN climb, very slowly, using the difficult terrain rules. That is penalty enough. A centaur trying to climb a rope or a steep cliff moved 1 foot per every 5 ft of movement expended; or (assuming he's not a monk or barbarian) in one round he climbs 8 feet while a human can climb 15. If your using a grid; he moves one square (round down) to every 3 squares the human moves. If you want to rule that the centaur is equally ungainly on a spiral staircase, the double or quadruple move penalty is equally acceptable.

I don't agree with the notion that the centaur needs to make ability checks to do mundane things in mundane settings. The example that was placed as Dex checks to climb the stairs in an inn; a completely mundane activity with little or no danger and, in reality, no consequence of failure except to allow the DM (and any other player) a chance to laugh at him when he flops and falls doing mundane tasks. Its comparable to the tiefling getting his tail stuck in the door, a dragonborn unable to use silverwear with his claws, or a tabaxi having to save vs. fleas every time they go into deep woods. To be honest, it feels very ableist, even if that is completely unintentional.
 

There is some weird paralel design going on as it ran completement to AD&D rather than sequentially with it. I tend to count it as an offshoot that eventually merged back with the main game, and that's not to diminish my love for it.
I think you have it wrong. They dropped ad&d and went back to d&d. 3E is more becmi than ad&d.
 

To clarify, what was said is that there are some players that only want the mechanical benefits. Have you not seen this player? I have. Like a thousand times. Nothing wrong with it. In fact there is an entire thread, maybe 60 pages long on ASIs that demonstrates for many, it is the mechanics they are looking for.

I see that type of player.
My point is many DMs protray them as powergamers whereas historically people playing weird races were playing weaker PCs in D&D and just looking for alternate angles to typical D&D problems.


To clarify, another thing said was that some players desired the culture and history of the race. Nothing wrong with that either. If it is not on the list, perhaps there is a comparable culture? If there isn't, would you consider playing a different culture? Is there a way to put that character concept and save it for another time?
Well often people wanted those races because the DM or world builder lacked that culture in the forefront of their setting.

It is easier to say the weird race is the leaders of the dragon/demon/fey/death/sex cult than to convince the DM that the same thing hides within their carefully described human kingdom.
 

I think you have it wrong. They dropped ad&d and went back to d&d. 3E is more becmi than ad&d.

Exactly the opposite. D&D 3rd Edition is the direct successor to AD&D 2nd Edition. 3E literally copy-pastes some actual text from 2E (mainly in spell descriptions). 3E carries over the large number of races, classes, and alignments from AD&D. It has spells, magic items, and monsters from AD&D that never appeared in any version of Classic D&D. It comes in the same three core rulebook format. It borrows nothing at all from D&D except the name (which was pure marketing on WotC's part: they didn't want "Advanced" in the title intimidating new players) and maybe, maybe, at a real stretch if you turn sideways and squint, the idea of a uniform ability bonus table.

WotC killed the D&D line and gave its name to the AD&D line when they came out with 3rd Edition. They didn't merge the two lines back into one by any stretch of the imagination, and they certainly never gave BECMI or the Rules Cyclopedia a true successor.

(But it is worth noting that this is something TSR was already in the process of doing for itself in the late 90s, given that they were moving Mystara over to 2E, and they replaced the Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game with a 2E-compatible introductory boxed set called the D&D Adventure Game in 1999.)
 
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