D&D 5E Flanking

[DND_Reborn]

No, again, my suggestion is to use Facing in place of Flanking. Only the attacker in the rear flank gets advantage. That’s literally the point.

Which is what you quoted from me says. I'm just saying (especially using VTT or minis) it is easy to handle.

Since advantages don't stack, having an opponent at your back when facing one in front, doesn't hurt you any so you might as well face the front opponent, ignore the rear one, and deny the front opponent advantage.

This is what you are doing. I get that.

Players should be able to use those features, though. Facing on its own makes that much more difficult, because players have one more thing (and a very important thing at that) competing for their reaction. Adding in Marking frees OAs up from using your reaction (at least in melee, which is where you’re most likely to need your reaction to change facing), so you’re back to the normal number of things competing for that resource.

But marking allows you an OA for free without the cost of your reaction. So, with marking you can get an OA and change facing. But you can't Uncanny Dodge and change facing, or cast shield can change facing. You are making people choose between changing facing and doing other reactions, but aren't making them choose between getting an OA and changing facing.

That hurts all the other reaction options except getting in OAs when you add changing facing as a reaction as well.

 

[Charlaquin]

But marking allows you an OA for free without the cost of your reaction. So, with marking you can get an OA and change facing. But you can't Uncanny Dodge and change facing, or cast shield can change facing. You are making people choose between changing facing and doing other reactions, but aren't making them choose between getting an OA and changing facing.

Yes.

That hurts all the other reaction options except getting in OAs when you add changing facing as a reaction as well.

Not really? Without facing or marking you are choosing between those other reaction options or an OA. With both facing and marking you are choosing between those other options or changing facing. Same number of general options for your reaction. The net effect does make OAs a little easier to do than by default. Personally I’m fine with that, as I consider making tanks stickier a good thing.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The net effect does make OAs a little easier to do than by default. Personally I’m fine with that, as I consider making tanks stickier a good thing.

That's fine then. I wouldn't want that personally, especially since you are also getting the OA with advantage. But if it works for you...

 

[Rockyroad]

I find the marking mechanic somewhat diminishes the sentinel feat. Ideally you want both if you're playing with those rules.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I find the marking mechanic somewhat diminishes the sentinel feat. Ideally you want both if you're playing with those rules.

I find it pointless because there is little to no cost and just allows more OAs.

I am fighting an ogre. I mark it when I attack (no cost to me). Now, if it moves away I get an OA with advantage and without costing me my reaction.

There is no downside to this. If the gnoll I am also fighting moves away instead, I can still make an OA against the gnoll, but it would be without advantage and would cost me my reaction (in other words, completely normal OA).

Now, if marking one target prevented you from making OAs against another target, that might make sense.

 

[Charlaquin]

I find the marking mechanic somewhat diminishes the sentinel feat. Ideally you want both if you're playing with those rules.

Sentinel still seems valuable to me, since it still lets you OA when a target enters your reach (though that will cost a reaction). Plus it makes your OAs stop movement, which seems even more useful with Marking in play. But, I’ve distracted from the topic of flanking log enough. Sorry for the derailment!

 

[Charlaquin]

I find it pointless because there is little to no cost and just allows more OAs.

I am fighting an ogre. I mark it when I attack (no cost to me). Now, if it moves away I get an OA with advantage and without costing me my reaction.

There is no downside to this. If the gnoll I am also fighting moves away instead, I can still make an OA against the gnoll, but it would be without advantage and would cost me my reaction (in other words, completely normal OA).

Now, if marking one target prevented you from making OAs against another target, that might make sense.

Umm, the Mark rule specifies that you can only make one OA per turn...

 

[Rockyroad]

I find it pointless because there is little to no cost and just allows more OAs.

I am fighting an ogre. I mark it when I attack (no cost to me). Now, if it moves away I get an OA with advantage and without costing me my reaction.

There is no downside to this. If the gnoll I am also fighting moves away instead, I can still make an OA against the gnoll, but it would be without advantage and would cost me my reaction (in other words, completely normal OA).

Now, if marking one target prevented you from making OAs against another target, that might make sense.

Yes it's very powerful. Maybe too powerful. I can see it locking up melee combat even more than normally. I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of OA all together except for those that have special abilities or feats, make them feel you know, special .

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes it's very powerful. Maybe too powerful. I can see it locking up melee combat even more than normally. I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of OA all together except for those that have special abilities or feats, make them feel you know, special .

I definitely wouldn’t want to use it, or facing (or flanking, for that matter) in TotM. It makes combat on the grid more tactical, but it just makes for too much crap to keep in your head in TotM.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Umm, the Mark rule specifies that you can only make one OA per turn...

Which changes nothing. You can only make one OA per turn normally anyway. It doesn't prevent me from making an OA instead against a target I haven't marked (using my reaction, of course, and without advantage).

What Mark does is allow you a free OA with advantage with no cost at all to the PC or creature using it.