D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[Hussar]

In case folks think I’m just being nit picky, the reason I brought up the samurai example is to show how the dm’s ideas of what “fits” in a setting don’t necessarily jive with the player’s. After all, we might have very different views on many aspects of a setting.

Which comes back to the dm saying no. Protecting your setting from a player is likely going to backfire. Not always but often.

Flexibility makes for better dms.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

In case folks think I’m just being nit picky, the reason I brought up the samurai example is to show how the dm’s ideas of what “fits” in a setting don’t necessarily jive with the player’s. After all, we might have very different views on many aspects of a setting.

Which comes back to the dm saying no. Protecting your setting from a player is likely going to backfire. Not always but often.

Flexibility makes for better dms.

Though it is worth noting, "flexibility" never has meant (and never should mean) being a doormat for your players. I have seen the negative impact that can have on others. It wasn't my game, but it was the game that inspired me to DM. (Because no matter what I might think about my DMing skills, I was certain I could do better than that.)

As I use the term, "flexibility" means, "Alright, you want X. I don't currently have X in my world. What are you looking for from X? What parts of it are vital to you, and what parts are just trappings?" If we can narrow things down to the essential elements, I can determine whether we can form a compromise or not. In the vast, vast, vast majority of cases, we can, simply because I leave room in my worlds for there to be stuff I haven't planned for yet.

I'd almost call the opposite--inflexibility, where you as DM already know all the content of the campaign world, definitively--a little irresponsible? It prevents so much, and what happens if you forget something, or leave a conflict by accident and only discover it later?

 

[dave2008]

Just looked at this thread with fresh eyes and I realized that human's are the weirdest fantasy race. I mean they are like completely mundane - not fantasy at all!

 

[Jack Daniel]

Just looked at this thread with fresh eyes and I realized that human's are the weirdest fantasy race. I mean they are like completely mundane - not fantasy at all!

That's a weird thing to say about the race that invented fantasy!

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

That's a weird thing to say about the race that invented fantasy!

The point of fantasy is that the world is magical (typically) and different from our current world. Humans in the real world aren't magical, and are "normal" in human terms.

Also, just because one person invented something, that doesn't give them the qualities of the thing they invented. Humans invented AI, but that doesn't make humans be computers.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The point of fantasy is that the world is magical (typically) and different from our current world. Humans in the real world aren't magical, and are "normal" in human terms.

Also, just because one person invented something, that doesn't give them the qualities of the thing they invented. Humans invented AI, but that doesn't make humans be computers.

Though ironically, the word "computer" originally DID mean "human who performs calculations." It took at least a decade after the introduction of electronic computers for the implication of the unmodified word to switch from "human who performs calculations" to "machine which performs calculations."

 

[Scott Christian]

I was repeatedly told that it was 100% impossible to have Asian flavoured pcs in a medieval Egypt game because there were no records of Asian peoples coming to Europe.

Apparently that is becoming less and less true as more and more evidence is showing up of medieval interactions between various nations.

So if your argument is, you can’t be a samurai in my Egypt game because of how I understand history and you are shown to be wrong, is the player being bad for doing so? Would it change your ruling?

Ah, I see. I am sorry, I forgot you did mention the samurai example. (Btw, Ghosts of Tsushima looks neat. I have no time, but it looks really good.)

Personally, I wouldn't care unless the story hinged on you all being from the same place. You would be playing a samurai. But I do not fault the DM for wanting the flavor to be static. In his mind, he is serving a solid chicken noodle soup. You want to add an Asian ingredient. He says it doesn't go together. You show him a chef (and many Chinese restaurants) that do offer their own flavor of chicken noodle. He can (and I do not think you will like this answer) say, no we are sticking with our original chicken noodle soup recipe.

The fact that you clearly demonstrated he is wrong. The fact that evidence is 100% on your side. The fact that it seems like he is being a stickler when he could bend. It is not how the DM is envisioning things. The simple fact is the DM might be envisioning other problems with your samurai and not able to articulate them - like them being a freakshow or your honor bound morality getting in the way or that other players will sudeenly want to do the same and the campaign will be thwarted or even something as simple as a language barrier. There are many reasons. I do not know as I am not your DM. But just because you prove something doesn't mean the DM must change their mind.

That said, he should listen, talk with you, work with you, and bend (imho). But, I would ask this:
Did you know you were playing an Egyptian style game? Did he ask you to make an Egyptian style character? Were the parameters set prior to you making your character?

I am not accusing with the questions above, I am legitimately curious, as I do not remember if you said that information. Thanks.

 

[Scott Christian]

Well, if we have a rope already, no reason we can’t also have a block and tackle, and a rope harness around the centaur.

With spiked shoes to help grip the rock, the centaur is pushing upward with all four legs and pulling with their hands, but with a block and tackle, they aren’t even pulling up their full weight.

Perfect. I will keep the DC the same and you no long have disadvantage. You get to climb like everyone else. Of course, setting up block and tackle with secure groundings might not be easy, but a very easy survival check should accomplish that.

 

[Scott Christian]

I'm pretty sure there's an effort to avoid portraying racial discrimination as a norm in modern media. The Hobbit movies were careful to show that the bad blood between the dwarves and the elves was because the dwarves refused to give the elves the jewels they wanted and the elves refused to help the dwarves when Smaug attacked rather than a more general racial distrust. I think the racial preferences table was pretty much a 1e feature - I don't recall seeing it from 2e onwards.

Did you not see the quote I gave from the PHB for 5th edition? It literally states they do not trust elves. This is 5th edition. It also has three separate sections (basically every section of fluff except for appearance) that references this pattern of behavior towards all outsiders. Second edition had a whole supplement that discussed the dwarven demeanor, including their distrust of elves.

I do not know about third, and fourth edition did it without stating any bias towards any race. Of course, everyone talks about how 4th edition had no soul and lacked the flavor of D&D. This is one of the reasons. So in 5e, they returned to providing lore, and lore includes interactions with others.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Ah, I see. I am sorry, I forgot you did mention the samurai example. (Btw, Ghosts of Tsushima looks neat. I have no time, but it looks really good.)

Personally, I wouldn't care unless the story hinged on you all being from the same place. You would be playing a samurai. But I do not fault the DM for wanting the flavor to be static. In his mind, he is serving a solid chicken noodle soup. You want to add an Asian ingredient. He says it doesn't go together. You show him a chef (and many Chinese restaurants) that do offer their own flavor of chicken noodle. He can (and I do not think you will like this answer) say, no we are sticking with our original chicken noodle soup recipe.

The fact that you clearly demonstrated he is wrong. The fact that evidence is 100% on your side. The fact that it seems like he is being a stickler when he could bend. It is not how the DM is envisioning things. The simple fact is the DM might be envisioning other problems with your samurai and not able to articulate them - like them being a freakshow or your honor bound morality getting in the way or that other players will suddenly want to do the same and the campaign will be thwarted or even something as simple as a language barrier. There are many reasons. I do not know as I am not your DM. But just because you prove something doesn't mean the DM must change their mind.

That said, he should listen, talk with you, work with you, and bend (imho). But, I would ask this:
Did you know you were playing an Egyptian style game? Did he ask you to make an Egyptian style character? Were the parameters set prior to you making your character?

I am not accusing with the questions above, I am legitimately curious, as I do not remember if you said that information. Thanks.

The thing is though, this can literally happen with any character. Just taking the Egypt example for a brief second, most Egytian style characters would likely have a belief in the sacredness of the Pharoah, it was a pretty big deal.

What if a character wanted to play a former servant from the Palace, who did not believe in the Divinity of the Pharoah? What about, since the example of "but they'd be killed on sight" comes up a lot, the character wanted to play a servant who was supposed to be killed and buried in their Pharoah's tomb, but escaped and stole an item of great worth? They'd be a criminal hunted by the God-King of the land.


The point being, "You might have a character trait that is hard to deal with" is a risk with any character ever being made. Sure, "Samurais are highly honorable, and that honor might clash with the things you do" but just because the Samurai of myth are famous for their honor doesn't mean that you can't make a highly honorable person regardless of their culture and class. There is no issue I can conceive of quickly that couldn't be replicated by a thematically appropriate counter-part, or trivially waved off (such as language)