D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Chaosmancer]

Their adventurers are people who come from a small town that most folk outside of it don't even know is there, or who grew up in a settlement of another race, where they were the Small Folk amongst bigger, louder, less lucky, less likeable, folk.

One problem might be.... that's gnomes.

Gnomes are a small race that come from a small town that most people don't even know is there... because they hide the town with illusion magic and mostly live underground.

Halfling towns and their large farms and their orchards go unnoticed because.... Luck?


The "secret enclave of small folk no one knows is there" is just done far far better by Gnomes

However, the iconic halfling culture doesn't have standout warrior traditions, or magical traditions, they just have folks. Their warriors are bounders whose training and gear is very practical and who are just John the Bounder. Their wizards are hedge wizard nerds whose magic is probably most practical with some broad utility up their sleeve, and most magic they'd use to defend their town is magic that was invented for something other than battle, or at least can be used outside of combat.

Which could also be an entirely human thing. What about being practical is a halfling thing over a human thing?

Maybe it is different for other people, but this just doesn't feel fundamentally different than how I would describe certain "salt of the earth" trope humans. Maybe it is because I am an english major and so the "good old farmer" is such a human trope for me that I can't escape it?

Honestly, nothing screams human to me more than these agrarian, simple but practical, good-hearted folk, tropes.

 

[tetrasodium]

Sure they are. All it takes is 10 miles(and probably less) and an army would never encounter them.

Lucky for the Halflings, there's never an orc around when they have a fire lit. And luckily that copse of trees near their home stops the orcs in the mountains from being able to see them.

It's just not credible to suggest that even a significant fraction of halfling villages are accidentally lost, at least lost takes pains to stay hidden if you find it by doing things like moving elsewhere with everyone becoming someone else on occasion

 

[Chaosmancer]

You're too focused on the rather adolescent obsession with military power and conquest that you are overlooking something important. Halflings don't have "racial enemies". They have more allies than enemies.

So while the orc horde approaches and the halfling militia prepare for battle, supported by the cleric of Yondalla, the signal goes out. The human king, worried about the threat to his most loyal vassals, sends forth his soldiers; the dwarves, remembering the ale and good times shared with their halfling friends, march forth from their mountain fortress; the elves, knowing their halfling neighbours are kind, considerate, send a squad of rangers, and the gnomes, remembering the fun and laughter they shared, come from their lairs to fight as well.

By the time the orc horde arrives reinforcements are well on the way, the halfing warriors put up a big fight, and oh, what's this? Well, it seems a pastoral idyll of great food, kind people, plentiful ale is the perfect place for retirement, particularly for archmages...

Halflings have warriors, halflings have spellcasters, but they also have friends. Pretty much everyone likes them, and you fight for your friends because they'll fight for you.

Wow, talk about magical luck.

Halflings are so wholesome and good they can get humans, elves and dwarves all working together and sending military aid to their tiny little shire, when any two of those races normally need a full quest line to send aid to prevent the absolute destruction of a fellow kingdom, preferring instead to strengthen their own borders and deal with their own problems.

Oh, and of course an archmage retired to the halfling village that no one can find because halfling luck. I mean, it isn't like he would be doing anything else.


Seriously, this is a completely absurd response considering how many plot lines revolve around "if X doesn't send aid we are destroyed, go and convince them to help us."

 

[Maxperson]

It's just not credible to suggest that even a significant fraction of halfling villages are accidentally lost, at least lost takes pains to stay hidden if you find it by doing things like moving elsewhere with everyone becoming someone else on occasion

It's not credible in the real world, no. It's absolutely credible in D&D where luck and halfling gods help them stay hidden. No need to move around. There's also the fact that Halflings don't build villages near orc mountains in the first place.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Per the earlier posts, they live in places where there aren't threats like that around (IE: Not in the frontier), and either they're not worth larger creatures time or they're buddy enough with them they won't attack.

"Far from marauding monsters and clashing armies" is incredibly vague. Especially when you take settings like FR.

Where exactly is far from monsters in that setting? If you are more than a day outside of a city state, you are near monsters. So, halflings live inside the cities of humans? Then where are their large farms and orchards?

Why are the halflings farming pristine land in the middle of the human kingdoms? Why don't the humans want that land? And, wouldn't being near the middle of kingdom put them at risk from armies trying to conquer that kingdom? Or plots by various cults and other threats.

I mean, this explanation makes it sound like the Halflings have a monopoly on the safest lands in the entire world, and no one questions it. Which again, seems kind of weird.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Which is why rabbits don't chose to live in that enclosure. Duh. A human in an enclosure with a pack of wolves wouldn't fare much better. What's your point?

Yet there are still plenty of rabbits running around. Just ask my wife about all the flowers they've eaten.

The point is that halflings live in a world so full of predators it beggars our current ecosystems.

Yet they are perfectly safe from all threats? They can live in out of the way places, with large farms, and orchards of fruit bearing trees, and yet not be threatened by anything?


The worlds of DnD are hyper-dangerous. Mordenkainen's tells us that most halfling villages defend themselves with rocks and sticks. That doesn't work. That doesn't make sense. They would need to have better defenses than that. Because the worlds of DnD are far too dangerous.

 

[tetrasodium]

It's not credible in the real world, no. It's absolutely credible in D&D where luck and halfling gods help them stay hidden. No need to move around. There's also the fact that Halflings don't build villages near orc mountains in the first place.

You realize that Gods and magic apples to both sides of the equation not just the one convenient to your scenario

 

[Chaosmancer]

Lucky for the Halflings, there's never an orc around when they have a fire lit. And luckily that copse of trees near their home stops the orcs in the mountains from being able to see them.

Right, Luck > Physics or Realism

Which is just hand-waving and saying "don't worry, nothing bad happens to the little folk. No siree"

And weapons and magic. They have lots of adventurers with weapons and magic.

A bunch of retired and visiting adventurers is some pretty good defense. For those very, very, VERY rare times an enemy can actually find them.

Nope, read Mordenkainens, the one with "better lore" as you put it.

Rocks and Sticks

No adventurers, no magic, no weapons. You are adding that where it does not exist. Nothing in any part of the Halfling lore anywhere says they have a preponderance of retired adventurers.

Depends on the DM. Read the DMG. You can make magic super rare or super common. Up to you.

Sure, just remembering how hard I fought with people who wanted to declare it super rare, incredibly rare. the most rare.

Doesn't seem like those people should be surprised that halflings don't have magic.

Depends on what kind of adventurers are among the many retired Halflings.

Again, assuming something with zero supporting evidence. Nothing says anything about retired adventurers in the halfling village.

Actually, it only tells us that Avoreen has them practice with those. It doesn't say that they exclusively use those at the expense of common sense. It's not like they don't have access and retired adventurers with plenty of them.

You sure do love that assumption. Fourth time you've made it in one post. Would sure love you to quote me some rules that support this.

And, can you point to literally any other tactics that their only War Goddess has them practice? I mean, she is their only deity of war, their only diety of defense, and those are the only tactics listed in the book. Again, you are free to make baseless assumptions that they do other things that would be more effective, but... those are baseless assumptions with no supporting evidence.

Yay! More Strawmen.

Or, you know, a summary of the various points made by a variety of posters in this thread.

I mean, I can reference more people than just you Max. And most people don't take your extreme view on "exactly the words I said in exactly the definitions I meant" that you take.

Too bad they didn't have Halfling luck and Halfling gods to save them. Or D&D levels of realism.

Hey look, something that has nothing to do with the point I was making. Wonder why that always happens.

 

[Scribe]

I just dont think it is THAT dangerous. If we are going to assume that there are roving bands of bloodthirsty monsters within every wooded hilltop, then...nothing without a wall and a moat makes sense.

 

[Charlaquin]

Nah, it's all puns. There is no need to arbitrarily invent new distinctions in order to be able to call one form of humor "low" (vomit).

Oh, no, my intent in arbitrarily inventing a distinction is purely so I can make myself look more pretentious

In all seriousness though, I have nothing against puns. I just don’t tend to find puns that employ sound-alikes funny and I do very much enjoy puns that employ homophones, homographs and homonyms, and calling the latter “wordplay” is a convenient way to express why I sometimes enjoy puns and sometimes don’t. But yeah, “high” vs. “low” humor is a nonsense idea.