D&D 5E Berserker is balanced with Zealot without exhaustion from Frenzy

[Guest 6801328]

More like it actually gives you the stated benefit of Frenzy on your first turn. Right now you have to wait until Round 2 before you start getting your additional attacks.

Ah, gotcha.
Then I don’t understand your second change. Rages/day correlates pretty closely to PB. Using Frenzy more often than your PB is pretty edge case.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Maybe go half proficiency bonus (rounded up) per long rest, then.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I don't think I'd change the penalty, but given that there's a penalty I don't like that you don't get to use it on the first turn. 5e combats tend to be so short; that's easily 1/3 or a 1/4 of the benefit.

(That said, we've had a few epic fights that have lasted between 10 and 20 rounds. It's surprising when 1 minute spell effects wear off mid-fight.)

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Why not use the Wildshape model of the one seen on a few new archetypes from Tasha's?

- Frenzy costs 2 use of Rage, does not give exhaustion penalty.

or

- Frenzy gives 1 level of exhaustion, unless you sacrifice 1 use of Rage to avoid the effect.

or

- Allows a Save with increasing DC a seen on the barbarian's Relentless Rage (?)

 

[Guest 6801328]

Why not use the Wildshape model of the one seen on a few new archetypes from Tasha's?

- Frenzy costs 2 use of Rage, does not give exhaustion penalty.

or

- Frenzy gives 1 level of exhaustion, unless you sacrifice 1 use of Rage to avoid the effect.

or

- Allows a Save with increasing DC a seen on the barbarian's Relentless Rage (?)

Or...better yet...create more subclass abilities with similarly interesting cost:benefit analyses, so that people will stop saying "But there's no other ability in the game that comes with such a penalty!!!!"

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Or...better yet...create more subclass abilities with similarly interesting cost:benefit analyses, so that people will stop saying "But there's no other ability in the game that comes with such a penalty!!!!"

agreed. Exhaustion is barely referenced in features or spells.

Things that could have an exhaustion cost, IMHO:

• Haste spell
• Being dropped to 0 hp while shapeshifted/polymorphed.
• the Overchannel ability of the Evoker
• The Divine Intervention of the cleric instead of 7 days.
• Features that lets you regain 1 use of a feature when rolling initiative (Sorcerer, Bard, Monk, Battlemaster capstone, for example) could be ''regain X uses/points then gain a level of Exhaustion)

 

[Guest 6801328]

agreed. Exhaustion is barely referenced in features or spells.

Things that could have an exhaustion cost, IMHO:

• Haste spell
• Being dropped to 0 hp while shapeshifted/polymorphed.
• the Overchannel ability of the Evoker
• The Divine Intervention of the cleric instead of 7 days.
• Features that lets you regain 1 use of a feature when rolling initiative (Sorcerer, Bard, Monk, Battlemaster capstone, for example) could be ''regain X uses/points then gain a level of Exhaustion)

How about letting spellcasters cast more spells, at the cost of 1 exhaustion level per spell level?

Sure, you can cast Fireball in an emergency, but you get 3 levels of exhaustion.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

How about letting spellcasters cast more spells, at the cost of 1 exhaustion level per spell level?

Sure, you can cast Fireball in an emergency, but you get 3 levels of exhaustion.

That's fair. Casting this way would be a ''Final Spell'': cast it and die!

 

[Nitrosaur]

One idea that crossed my mind was switching up Frenzy and Retaliation, seeing how the third and fourth attack impact the damage curve. Retaliation at level 3 offers damage on par with Zealot without the exhaustion downside, and exhaustion is more easily handled at level 14 than 3. Both features also take some kind of toll on the action economy, although I am aware that this would be a straight up buff to the Berserker. While I don't think Berserker is necessarily underpowered, I think this change could help it to compete directly with Zealot without surpassing it. What do you guys think?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Really it's Intimidating Presence that needs fixing. Thematically great, mechanically awful.