D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Oofta]

Except we're not talking 'common' or 'uncommon', which are words that have a consistent objective meaning. We're talking 'major' and 'minor' which can have radically different meanings.

Major and minor also only have meanings to specific people. I certainly don't see it ... yes halflings are not a warrior race. They aren't elves or dwarves. I think that's kind of an interesting niche and don't see anything wrong with having an alternative race that's not directly optimized for combat.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Don't use that logic.
Because AGAIN as halfling lore is described, halfling lore for leavinghome isnot a strong motivation to raid tommbs for treasure, attack orc hideouts, and slaying dragon.

Hence the problem. wanderlust and curiosity are etter motives to wander than be a violent adventurer. D&D is not a game of peaceful adventure. It's violent.

This does a good job at getting at my issue as well. The write-up says that halflings are good at “avoiding notice” from the larger races, that they love comfort and good food.

To me that doesn’t read like “1st level rogue”. That reads like “artisan who doesn’t want trouble”. Meanwhile, the other races DO emphasise their martial, divine and magical heritage.

 

[Oofta]

This does a good job at getting at my issue as well. The write-up says that halflings are good at “avoiding notice” from the larger races, that they love comfort and good food.

To me that doesn’t read like “1st level rogue”. That reads like “artisan who doesn’t want trouble”. Meanwhile, the other races DO emphasise their martial, divine and magical heritage.

For some people that's a feature, not a flaw. There are plenty of options to choose from if you want to come from a martial or arcane tradition, I see nothing wrong with having a single race where PCs break the mold and stand out from the crowd.

Besides, it's just fluff text, of it bothers you change it.

 

[Maxperson]

Don't use that logic.
Because AGAIN as halfling lore is described, halfling lore for leavinghome isnot a strong motivation to raid tommbs for treasure, attack orc hideouts, and slaying dragon.

Hence the problem. wanderlust and curiosity are etter motives to wander than be a violent adventurer. D&D is not a game of peaceful adventure. It's violent.

Party talking to a Halfling in a city: We're about to go plunder a dragon horde. It's rumored that it contains an artifact that will answer any question.
Halfling: Ooooooh! That sounds interesting. I'd love to ask it some things. I've always wondered why the sun rises in the East.
Party: You can come with us, but it will be dangerous and we will likely have to kill the dragon.
Halfling: Okay! As long as I can ask the artifact why out of all the creatures on the planet that can fly, Fly got the name. I've always wondered that.
Party: (laughs) Then welcome to the group.

Curiosity and wanderlust can explain almost anything. And then of course there are the manyHalfling adventurers that don't conform to the racial lore, per RAW.

All the lorehints to half elves being outcasts even in human and elven society. IT all hints that occupations that take them outside society or the norm.

Sure, but a wandering salesperson fits that bill. Lots of wandering outcast things to do that aren't adventurer.

BTW 4e: Half-elves rarely settle down for any length of time. Their wanderlust makes them natural adventurers, and they quickly make themselves at home wherever they end up. When their paths take them back to a place they have visited before, they track down old friends and renew old contacts.

The whole gimmick of the whole half elf race is that they always leave home and seek comfot in other weirdos like them.

That doesn't mean that they all become adventurers, or even nearly all, or even 20%. And again, there are very few half-elves.

.1% adventurers is actually too high. An adventurer is a very very very rare occupation. Tombraiding, orcbusting, and dragonslaying without the backup of armies is the life of a crazy person.
That's the whole point. Half elves, half orcs, and tieflings don't fit in normal society. So most of them are drawn to the weirder and stranger occupations.

And again, there are LOTS of occupations that don't involve adventuring that also involve wandering and being on the outskirts of society.

If there are only 100 of each half elves, half orcs, and tieflings, at least 50% are packing class levels. And that's a low estimate. Why do you think every half elves, half orcs, and tieflings is a secret level 5+ fighter, rogue, or mage or some crap who has a history with some gang or has 11 adventurer friends, half who are dead, or opened a business with their treasure money.

What? I don't think that and it certainly isn't true.

Halflings don't have this push. A wandering halfling might just tour like a normal person.

Normal people don't tour in a medieval society. Touring is a modern luxury.

And all 3 are adventurers, active or retired.

Nope. All 3 are normal kids to the normal Tiefling mother and father. One of them, bitter about the treatment he gets, will grow up and make a pact with Mickey Mouse, becoming a Warlock.

 

[Maxperson]

Millions of Humans do jack squat.
Millions of halflings do less than jack squat.
Because the very very few halflings involve themselves in the world.

You can't do less than jack squat. That's what jack squat means. And if you think the millions of human commoners rush out and save the world...

And halflings becomes a major race with milions of members who don't actually do anything in the setting and are invisible to the PCs.

That's simply not true. The city halfling folk are very visible and the MANY halfling adventurers do lots of things, including save the world.

 

[Maxperson]

Except we're not talking 'common' or 'uncommon', which are words that have a consistent objective meaning. We're talking 'major' and 'minor' which can have radically different meanings.

It's pretty clear from the context, though, that the "major" races correspond to the 4 PHB common races, and "minor" races correspond to all the rest.

 

[Minigiant]

Party talking to a Halfling in a city: We're about to go plunder a dragon horde. It's rumored that it contains an artifact that will answer any question.
Halfling: Ooooooh! That sounds interesting. I'd love to ask it some things. I've always wondered why the sun rises in the East.
Party: You can come with us, but it will be dangerous and we will likely have to kill the dragon.
Halfling: Okay! As long as I can ask the artifact why out of all the creatures on the planet that can fly, Fly got the name. I've always wondered that.
Party: (laughs) Then welcome to the group.

Curiosity and wanderlust can explain almost anything. And then of course there are the manyHalfling adventurers that don't conform to the racial lore, per RAW.

Do you know whow silly that sounds?

The party is describing plundering a dragon horde and your example has the halfling wanting to join but ignoring the dragon part and saying something silly.

This right here is what I'm talking about. Halflings are seen as silly side characters

Sure, but a wandering salesperson fits that bill. Lots of wandering outcast things to do that aren't adventurer.

Sure. But if you use that logic then it works triple on halflings as they don't adventure for wealth and power. Get it?

That doesn't mean that they all become adventurers, or even nearly all, or even 20%. And again, there are very few half-elves.

There being few half elves does nothave anything to do with them beng adventurers.
Them being all outcasts or graviating to weirder jobs does.

And again, there are LOTS of occupations that don't involve adventuring that also involve wandering and being on the outskirts of society.

Sure. But an adenturerisone of them and since most half elves will be on the outskirts, many will be adventurers.

You know who aren't forced to the edges. Halflings. Because they have a home. And it's an idealistic utopian home in 5e.

Normal people don't tour in a medieval society. Touring is a modern luxury.

I didn't write it intothe halfling lore. The writers say halfings leave home to "explore a wide and wonder-filled world.". That's not slaying dragons. That's backpacking across Europe.

Nope. All 3 are normal kids to the normal Tiefling mother and father. One of them, bitter about the treatment he gets, will grow up and make a pact with Mickey Mouse, becoming a Warlock.

Aint no such thing as a normal tiefling. 5e lore says many grow up to be "grow up to be swindlers, thieves, or crime lords".

You can't do less than jack squat. That's what jack squat means. And if you think the millions of human commoners rush out and save the world...

Human commoners get called up in levies by human lords to fight wars.
Halflings don't have halfling lords.

That's simply not true. The city halfling folk are very visible and the MANY halfling adventurers do lots of things, including save the world.

The lore paints them as the minority.
The other races have greater impact on the world.

 

[Maxperson]

Do you know whow silly that sounds?

The party is describing plundering a dragon horde and your example has the halfling wanting to join but ignoring the dragon part and saying something silly.

This right here is what I'm talking about. Halflings are seen as silly side characters

Who ignored the Dragon? The Halfling signed on to kill it if it's there.

Sure. But if you use that logic then it works triple on halflings as they don't adventure for wealth and power. Get it?

That statement is by RAW, false. Many adventurers don't conform to racial lore for their motivations. So many Halfling adventurers are out there for the $$$ or fame or whatever.

There being few half elves does nothave anything to do with them beng adventurers.
Them being all outcasts or graviating to weirder jobs does.

Not really. Wandering from town to town exterminating roaches is an odd job that an outcast would have. As is traveling salesman. And many more. Only those who are suicidal or just plain dumb would become adventurers and lead that kind of life. Most half-elves wouldn't take that insane risk and would find normal odd jobs while they wander.

I didn't write it intothe halfling lore. The writers say halfings leave home to "explore a wide and wonder-filled world.". That's not slaying dragons. That's backpacking across Europe.

I've said it literally 20+ times in this thread, but I'll quote it again since you missed it.

"Each race's description in this chapter includes information to help you roleplay a character of that race, including personality, physical appearance, features of society, and racial alignment tendencies. These details are suggestions to help you think about your character; adventurers can deviate widely from the norm for their race."

If you are stuck on the halfling lore for why they would adventurer, you are ignoring RAW in favor of your pre-conceived bias. Halflings go out and adventure for all the reasons that humans, elves and dwarves do.

Aint no such thing as a normal tiefling. 5e lore says many grow up to be "grow up to be swindlers, thieves, or crime lords".

Again, "many" is a relative term. If you have 10 tieflings in the world and 40% of them become those things, that's many of the tieflings.

 

[Minigiant]

Who ignored the Dragon? The Halfling signed on to kill it if it's there.

The halfling talked about flies.

That statement is by RAW, false. Many adventurers don't conform to racial lore for their motivations. So many Halfling adventurers are out there for the $$$ or fame or whatever.

Yes but D&D adventuring is about killing stuff and taking loot. The halfling motivations are not directly about those actions. Halflings can pursue their motivations safely without those actions.

Not really. Wandering from town to town exterminating roaches is an odd job that an outcast would have. As is traveling salesman. And many more. Only those who are suicidal or just plain dumb would become adventurers and lead that kind of life. Most half-elves wouldn't take that insane risk and would find normal odd jobs while they wander.

Same goes for halflings.
However a MUCH higher percentage of halfelves are outcasts.
So a MUCH higher percentage of halfelves are adventurers.
So a MUCH higher percentage of people would see halfelves as adventurers.

I've said it literally 20+ times in this thread, but I'll quote it again since you missed it.

"Each race's description in this chapter includes information to help you roleplay a character of that race, including personality, physical appearance, features of society, and racial alignment tendencies. These details are suggestions to help you think about your character; adventurers can deviate widely from the norm for their race."

If you are stuck on the halfling lore for why they would adventurer, you are ignoring RAW in favor of your pre-conceived bias. Halflings go out and adventure for all the reasons that humans, elves and dwarves do.

And I've said it 20 times as well.
The world as well as people playing D&D will not see your Halfling PC as the example of the race. They will see many halflings and most will be do nothing homebodies. This limits your options as a halfling PC as you pretty much have to subvert the image of halflings in most editions. 3e and 4e allowed you to play a halfling straight. Outside of special or homebrew setting, you could not play a typical halfling.

And this is strange for aa major race as you could be a normal human, dwarf, or elf in most editions.

 

[Maxperson]

The halfling talked about flies.

So what? I've also wondered why Fly got the name. I'm curious about that.

Yes but D&D adventuring is about killing stuff and taking loot. The halfling motivations are not directly about those actions. Halflings can pursue their motivations safely without those actions.

Many halfling adventurer motivations are directly about those actions. Even if not, killing stuff and taking loot is secondary most of the time to whatever else the adventure is about. I've almost never been in a group whose primary goal was kill stuff and loot.

Same goes for halflings.
However a MUCH higher percentage of halfelves are outcasts.
So a MUCH higher percentage of halfelves are adventurers.
So a MUCH higher percentage of people would see halfelves as adventurers.

Irrelevant. So what if 10 half-elves adventure when 1000 halfling adventurers wander by.

The world as well as people playing D&D will not see your Halfling PC as the example of the race.

Why does that matter?

They will see many halflings and most will be do nothing homebodies.

Same as most humans, elves and dwarves.

This limits your options as a halfling PC as you pretty much have to subvert the image of halflings in most editions.

It limits nothing. I've already shown you that adventurers often deviate radically from racial norms. It's not relevant whether people see you as a typical member of your race or not. Doesn't matter one whit.