D&D 5E Cloak of Elvenkind - Advantage to Stealth AND -5 to passive perception?

[Stalker0]

I saw some 5 year old threads on this topic but it was a bit unclear then, and was curious what people's thoughts on this now are.

The Cloak of Elvenkind provides:

1) Advantage on Stealth Checks. Straightforward, no issue here.
2) Wisdom (Perception) checks made to see you have disadvantage

Its number 2 that I am questioning. Is the intention that this applies to all uses of perception (aka the standard passive perception used to counter stealth). Or does the "checks made to see you" clause mean it only applies to people using an action to actively look for a hidden character?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

When you have disadvantage on a type of check, and your passive [that thing] is checked, it is a -5 penalty.

This is very helpful for Paladins who are given the cloak to help make up for their plate armor, since the advantage on stealth just makes it a flat roll.

 

[Oofta]

I saw some 5 year old threads on this topic but it was a bit unclear then, and was curious what people's thoughts on this now are.

The Cloak of Elvenkind provides:

1) Advantage on Stealth Checks. Straightforward, no issue here.
2) Wisdom (Perception) checks made to see you have disadvantage

Its number 2 that I am questioning. Is the intention that this applies to all uses of perception (aka the standard passive perception used to counter stealth). Or does the "checks made to see you" clause mean it only applies to people using an action to actively look for a hidden character?

We've always run it that it was disadvantage on perception checks to notice someone. If using passive perception, use a -5.

It's a little funky though because technically it only helps with checks that rely on sight even if the text does not say that.

 

[Charlaquin]

I saw some 5 year old threads on this topic but it was a bit unclear then, and was curious what people's thoughts on this now are.

The Cloak of Elvenkind provides:

1) Advantage on Stealth Checks. Straightforward, no issue here.
2) Wisdom (Perception) checks made to see you have disadvantage

Its number 2 that I am questioning. Is the intention that this applies to all uses of perception (aka the standard passive perception used to counter stealth). Or does the "checks made to see you" clause mean it only applies to people using an action to actively look for a hidden character?

Though the mechanic is poorly named, a “passive check” is still a form of check, which must be made. Anything that applies to “checks made to X” also applies to passive checks made to X.

 

[Iry]

This is very helpful for Paladins who are given the cloak to help make up for their plate armor, since the advantage on stealth just makes it a flat roll.

Definitely. It not only cancels out the penalty to stealth from heavy armor, but ALSO gives others disadvantage to detect you. So it's great on someone with heavy armor.

 

[toucanbuzz]

PHB page 175: "A passive check is a special kind of ability check" that obviously rolls no dice. There's nothing that says it cannot be affected by modifiers and as others stated the section notes that to calculate "advantage" add 5 and "disadvantage" subtract 5. The Search action would contemplate an actual die roll, though as a DM I often request a roll in high-stress situations.

 

[billd91]

I would definitely impose the -5 on the passive Perception check to see someone wearing the cloak of elvenkind. The passive check is a convenience, as I see it, to avoid having to constantly be rolling Wisdom (Perception) checks, not the avoidance of a check.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

An interesting thing I had only realized, I'd say within the past year, is that your Perception check can never be lower than your passive Perception score. Makes sense.

 

[iserith]

An interesting thing I had only realized, I'd say within the past year, is that your Perception check can never be lower than your passive Perception score. Makes sense.

That's true in combat when using the Search action to find a hidden creature. In other situations, that is not the case.

 

[Rabulias]

That's true in combat when using the Search action to find a hidden creature. In other situations, that is not the case.

According to Jeremy Crawford, a character's Passive Perception is a floor for their Perception.

Jeremy Crawford:

So if you make an active perception check and you get a number that's lower than your passive perception, all that means is that you did a lousy job of this particular active search, but your passive perception is still active. You're still going to notice something that "blips" onto your passive perception radar. Really, when you make that roll, you're really rolling to see "can I get a higher number?" If you fail to, well, again, your passive perception score is still active. It is effectively creating that minimum.