D&D General why do we not have an arcane half caster?

[Mind of tempest]

I think that's a matter of perception. I see the sorcerer as an alternative to the wizard for players who want that alternative. The similarities in the spells doesn't bother me because the distinctions are made in other ways, and that's not different than the similarities with a fighter and barbarian.

We still end up with hex blades demonstrating that smite spells and smiting didn't step on paladin toes because the other differences are important. Just name sure there are other differences.



Rangers left lore behind in energy edition.

Most groups still use primal as an energy source, the n my experience. It's pretty cosmetic.

most groups do not use primal in my experience as they literally do not know what it is as they got told to never think about 4e.

 

[TwoSix]

All ribbing of the poor Ranger aside, I feel like DnD lost some depth to its magic and lore by leaving Primal as a power source in 4e. It had such an amazing backstory that integrated perfectly into the creation of its world...

I was joking, but I'm also wondering if the fact that Ranger is so hard to pin down and AHC is so hard to define are related issues. They both point to this idea of the broadly competent, knowledgeable hero that's one side of the generic fantasy protagonist.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I was joking, but I'm also wondering if the fact that Ranger is so hard to pin down and AHC is so hard to define are related issues. They both point to this idea of the broadly competent, knowledgeable hero that's one side of the generic fantasy protagonist.

an astute observation part of what we would have to do is make the generic fantasy protagonist into something with bite.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In a logical D&D setting, rangers would have

designed their own spells. They’ve no need of wizards, nor does the fighters “fighter buddy”.

 

[Mind of tempest]

designed their own spells. They’ve no need of wizards, nor does the fighters “fighter buddy”.

they might share individual spells as there are only so many ways to do something but they would certainly end up with their own spells.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

they might share individual spells as there are only so many ways to do something but they would certainly end up with their own spells.

Right. There’s no need for 6 Fireballs, Fireball does its job really well. But yeah rangers could reasonably stand to have more spells of their own.

 

[Minigiant]

I was joking, but I'm also wondering if the fact that Ranger is so hard to pin down and AHC is so hard to define are related issues. They both point to this idea of the broadly competent, knowledgeable hero that's one side of the generic fantasy protagonist.

It's really a D&D problem. The issue is all advanced technology in D&D is arcane magic. So development on new weapon spells would be up to wizards (and if your world has them artificers). EKs and ATs are outright taught by wizards.

But for some reason rangers and AHCs don't design magic themselves nor pay others to.

This isn't a problem in other games like MMOs and CRPGs as their rangers and AHCs have eplosive arrows, freezing traps, and lightning swords with few hiccups.

designed their own spells. They’ve no need of wizards, nor does the fighters “fighter buddy”.

The issue is D&D has the martials play dumb. Rangers and fighters are often part of military organizations but none of the budget goes to R&D.

 

[Mind of tempest]

It's really a D&D problem. The issue is all advanced technology in D&D is arcane magic. So development on new weapon spells would be up to wizards (and if your world has them artificers). EKs and ATs are outright taught by wizards.

But for some reason rangers and AHCs don't design magic themselves nor pay others to.

This isn't a problem in other games like MMOs and CRPGs as their rangers and AHCs have eplosive arrows, freezing traps, and lightning swords with few hiccups.



The issue is D&D has the martials play dumb. Rangers and fighters are often part of military organizations but none of the budget goes to R&D.

yeah not having all tech improvements be spells is a thing I need to add to the lets-workshop-some-setting-elements thread.
rangers are difficult as it feels like it is trying to be three things at the same time.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's really a D&D problem. The issue is all advanced technology in D&D is arcane magic. So development on new weapon spells would be up to wizards (and if your world has them artificers). EKs and ATs are outright taught by wizards.

But for some reason rangers and AHCs don't design magic themselves nor pay others to.

This isn't a problem in other games like MMOs and CRPGs as their rangers and AHCs have eplosive arrows, freezing traps, and lightning swords with few hiccups.



The issue is D&D has the martials play dumb. Rangers and fighters are often part of military organizations but none of the budget goes to R&D.

It seems like you’re taking your own assumptions and trying to make them general. None of that is true in, say, Eberron. (Well except the part about magic being tech) Nor is it necessarily true in FR.

A lot of spell dev will be wizards, sure. But I rather doubt Ensaring Strike was thought up by a Wizard.

And Eldritch Knights are...smart.
Like their secondary stat is Int. I’ve never seen one played as anything less than very smart, and I’ve never seen one played as though they were a fighter who a Wizard came and taught some spells to.

 

[Minigiant]

It seems like you’re taking your own assumptions and trying to make them general. None of that is true in, say, Eberron. (Well except the part about magic being tech) Nor is it necessarily true in FR.

A lot of spell dev will be wizards, sure. But I rather doubt Ensaring Strike was thought up by a Wizard.

And Eldritch Knights are...smart.
Like their secondary stat is Int. I’ve never seen one played as anything less than very smart, and I’ve never seen one played as though they were a fighter who a Wizard came and taught some spells to.

I'm not saying it makes sense.

I'm saying their should be more ranger, sorcerer, EK, AT, and AHC "unique" spells. But D&D not only makes wizards develop 90% of arcane spells regardless of how smart or ambitious other classes might be, D&D also makes them too stupid to hire wizards either.

It makes more sense that Rnagerwould be part arificers who craft potions to heal and use divination/conjuration to track and capture. But the ranger spell list is mostly druid spells.

Same with an EK. Abjuration makes sense but as 1/3 casters, their evocation damage lags behind threats's HP. Transmutation buffs make more sense.

One of the reasons why people like Eberron is it doesn't keep some of the illogical tropes just to have them. Things follow their logical evolution if you have enough spellcasters cooperating. In FR, all the rangers invented 5 spells and said "Welp hat's enough spells for us. Where's the druids." And the fighters never thought "stone and bark is cool. But what about ironskin. Or Goldskin."