D&D 5E Counter-Attack Monk Build Ideas?

[doctorbadwolf]

The specific character this is for makes sense to have levels of Rogue, but is mostly a Monk.

Right now he is a Drunken Master. Tipsy Sway is great against multiple enemies, but his backstory includes him being lethal in single (especially arena) combat.

What I’d love instead of Tipsy Sway is an expansion on Deflect Arrows. Parry as a reaction, spend 1 ki to counter attack.

I’d also like soemthing defensive at level 3, and perhaps something where you study an enemy? What if, when you take the Dodge Action, you can study a specific enemy, and gain a damage bonus next time you hit them before the end of your next turn?

The idea is to model the kung fu archetype of the patient defensive, often symbolically water based, martial artist who turns the enemy’s attack against them.

The character is also a very analytical fighter, who understands the movements and emotions of his opponents and uses that to take them down.

Any ideas on how to do this, both within what already exists, and what sort of abilities might go with it in a new monk subclass?

 

[Gammadoodler]

The specific character this is for makes sense to have levels of Rogue, but is mostly a Monk.

Right now he is a Drunken Master. Tipsy Sway is great against multiple enemies, but his backstory includes him being lethal in single (especially arena) combat.

What I’d love instead of Tipsy Sway is an expansion on Deflect Arrows. Parry as a reaction, spend 1 ki to counter attack.

I’d also like soemthing defensive at level 3, and perhaps something where you study an enemy? What if, when you take the Dodge Action, you can study a specific enemy, and gain a damage bonus next time you hit them before the end of your next turn?

The idea is to model the kung fu archetype of the patient defensive, often symbolically water based, martial artist who turns the enemy’s attack against them.

The character is also a very analytical fighter, who understands the movements and emotions of his opponents and uses that to take them down.

Any ideas on how to do this, both within what already exists, and what sort of abilities might go with it in a new monk subclass?

Seems like a number of these would be accomplished using battle master techniques mechanically anyway (goading, menacing, disarming, parrying, riposting). To your point though, levels of swashbuckler or inquisitive rogue would also make sense.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Seems like a number of these would be accomplished using battle master techniques mechanically anyway (goading, menacing, disarming, parrying, riposting). To your point though, levels of swashbuckler or inquisitive rogue would also make sense.

True, though you get so damn few of those...

Hmm...

Swashbuckler is especially good for flowing through melee even when i'm not spending Ki to Flurry, while Inquisitive works really well for the character concept.

His combat tactics often also include acrobatics and athletics, high ground, etc, which makes thief a good choice, though the climbing speed part of that is also in the Athletics feat.

Perhaps for a subclass, I could look at Open Hand and Drunken Master for balance, and add things to the Flurry and Patient Defense features, and eventually the Deflect Arrows feature.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I'm picturing something like this:
Level 3:
Deflect Blow: When you Dodge on your turn, you study your opponents and can counterattack them more easily. Until the start of your next turn, when an enemy hits you with a melee attack, as a reaction, spend a ki point to do one of the following:
a. Make a melee weapon attack. If you hit the enemy, reduce the damage you take by your damage roll.
b. Shove the enemy. If the enemy is knocked prone in this way, it cannot stand back up until its next turn.
c. Use Step of the Wind.

Level 6:
When you use Deflect Blow, you may spend another ki point to make a single melee or ranged weapon attack.

Level 11: Maybe something to change places with an enemy that hits you and cause it to hit an enemy now within 5' of it?

Level 17: ???

 

[Weiley31]

Beyond Damage Dice: Monk Weapons, Part 1

Monk Weapons A weapon is more than the damage it deals. In combat, skilled warriors use their weapons to confuse, disorient, and disadvantage their enemies before moving in for the kill. Beyond Damage Dice ties unique maneuvers to weapons from both the core rules and the Midgard Campaign...

koboldpress.com

there's up to three articles bout the monk weapons and some others bout other weapons.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm picturing something like this:
Level 3:
Deflect Blow: When you Dodge on your turn, you study your opponents and can counterattack them more easily. Until the start of your next turn, when an enemy hits you with a melee attack, as a reaction, spend a ki point to do one of the following:
a. Make a melee weapon attack. If you hit the enemy, reduce the damage you take by your damage roll.
b. Shove the enemy. If the enemy is knocked prone in this way, it cannot stand back up until its next turn.
c. Use Step of the Wind.

Level 6:
When you use Deflect Blow, you may spend another ki point to make a single melee or ranged weapon attack.

Level 11: Maybe something to change places with an enemy that hits you and cause it to hit an enemy now within 5' of it?

Level 17: ???

I like that basic idea. I think the ki expense is too high for some of it, though. Looking at Deflect Missiles, you only spend ki if you throw the missile back, and looking at Open Hand, you spend a ki to Flurry, and just get the extra benefit for free. Generally, the satisfying Monk subclasses are the ones where you are getting more than just new ways to spend ki, so I'd look to do something like the following on a second pass:

Level 3: Stance of The Patient Tide. When you take the Dodge Action on your turn, you enter the Stance of The Patient Tide until the end of your next turn. While in the stance, you gain insight into any creature that comes into close contact with you. Whenever a creature misses you with a melee attack, they must succeed on a charisma saving throw or you learn their current HP total, and any damage resistences, immunities, or vulnerabilities they have.

The Tide Comes In. You can use your reaction to deflect a melee weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level.


If you reduce the damage to 0, you can spend 1 ki do one of the following;

• Make a melee weapon attack against the target
• Move a number of feet up to your Unarmored Movement speed bonus
• Force the attacker to succeed on a Dexterity Saving Throw or be moved up to 10ft or any direction and knocked prone.

Level 6. Feel the Quiet River Rage. When you are in the Stance of The Patient Tide, you gain tremorsense out to 20ft, and can move up to 5ft any time you succeed on a strength or dexterity saving throw.

Level 11. idk

Level 17. Tidal Heart Beat When you use your Flurry of Blows or spend ki as part of the The Tide Comes In ability, you can feel the ki of a single creature targeted by the ability, feeling their heartbeat if they have one, or their mystical essence if they do not. Any time in the next minute that you use either ability against them again, you can spend ki to add additional damage dice equal to your martial arts die to a single damage roll against the target, ending the effect. You gain a number of dice equal to the number of ki you spend.

I'd like to finagle that a bit more to where you mark an enemy like in Tidal Heart Beat but with a much lesser effect very early on. I'll think on it and rework the abilities to use that psuedomarking mechanic early on, somewhere, but I do think the deflecting attacks thing should be at level 3 if possible, because it's situational enough that it isn't really equal to most level 6 benefits, and a slight buff to the dodge action isn't supperr beefy either.

Beyond Damage Dice: Monk Weapons, Part 1

Monk Weapons A weapon is more than the damage it deals. In combat, skilled warriors use their weapons to confuse, disorient, and disadvantage their enemies before moving in for the kill. Beyond Damage Dice ties unique maneuvers to weapons from both the core rules and the Midgard Campaign...

koboldpress.com

there's up to three articles bout the monk weapons and some others bout other weapons.

His weapons aren't really the issue, but I'll check out the articles.

 

[Flamestrike]

The specific character this is for makes sense to have levels of Rogue, but is mostly a Monk.

Right now he is a Drunken Master. Tipsy Sway is great against multiple enemies, but his backstory includes him being lethal in single (especially arena) combat.

What I’d love instead of Tipsy Sway is an expansion on Deflect Arrows. Parry as a reaction, spend 1 ki to counter attack.

I’d also like soemthing defensive at level 3, and perhaps something where you study an enemy? What if, when you take the Dodge Action, you can study a specific enemy, and gain a damage bonus next time you hit them before the end of your next turn?

The idea is to model the kung fu archetype of the patient defensive, often symbolically water based, martial artist who turns the enemy’s attack against them.

The character is also a very analytical fighter, who understands the movements and emotions of his opponents and uses that to take them down.

Any ideas on how to do this, both within what already exists, and what sort of abilities might go with it in a new monk subclass?

Mix in some Battlemaster Fighter for maneuvers.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I like that basic idea. I think the ki expense is too high for some of it, though. Looking at Deflect Missiles, you only spend ki if you throw the missile back, and looking at Open Hand, you spend a ki to Flurry, and just get the extra benefit for free. Generally, the satisfying Monk subclasses are the ones where you are getting more than just new ways to spend ki, so I'd look to do something like the following on a second pass:

Level 3: Stance of The Patient Tide. When you take the Dodge Action on your turn, you enter the Stance of The Patient Tide until the end of your next turn. While in the stance, you gain insight into any creature that comes into close contact with you. Whenever a creature misses you with a melee attack, they must succeed on a charisma saving throw or you learn their current HP total, and any damage resistences, immunities, or vulnerabilities they have.

The Tide Comes In. You can use your reaction to deflect a melee weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level.


If you reduce the damage to 0, you can spend 1 ki do one of the following;

• Make a melee weapon attack against the target
• Move a number of feet up to your Unarmored Movement speed bonus
• Force the attacker to succeed on a Dexterity Saving Throw or be moved up to 10ft or any direction and knocked prone.

Level 6. Feel the Quiet River Rage. When you are in the Stance of The Patient Tide, you gain tremorsense out to 20ft, and can move up to 5ft any time you succeed on a strength or dexterity saving throw.

Level 11. idk

Level 17. Tidal Heart Beat When you use your Flurry of Blows or spend ki as part of the The Tide Comes In ability, you can feel the ki of a single creature targeted by the ability, feeling their heartbeat if they have one, or their mystical essence if they do not. Any time in the next minute that you use either ability against them again, you can spend ki to add additional damage dice equal to your martial arts die to a single damage roll against the target, ending the effect. You gain a number of dice equal to the number of ki you spend.

I'd like to finagle that a bit more to where you mark an enemy like in Tidal Heart Beat but with a much lesser effect very early on. I'll think on it and rework the abilities to use that psuedomarking mechanic early on, somewhere, but I do think the deflecting attacks thing should be at level 3 if possible, because it's situational enough that it isn't really equal to most level 6 benefits, and a slight buff to the dodge action isn't supperr beefy either.


His weapons aren't really the issue, but I'll check out the articles.

Spitballing some things here. Seems like you could use some exploration/social features.

Stilled tempest: cast calm emotions one time/sr without expending a spell slot.

Ride the waves: you are always under the effect of the water walk spell.

On the other hand... Maelstrom is a cool word.. sooo...

Unbound Maelstrom: once per long rest, invoke the oceans ferocity. For one minute, you gain one additional action each turn which you may spend to dodge or attack with an unarmed strike. For the duration, your unarmed strikes have a range of 15 feet, and when you hit with an unarmed attack, you may spend a ki point to pull that creature 10 feet toward you.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Mix in some Battlemaster Fighter for maneuvers.

Id rather not tbh. That’s a big investment just to get a tiny pool of a secondary resource to do small beans manuevers.

Spitballing some things here. Seems like you could use some exploration/social features.

Stilled tempest: cast calm emotions one time/sr without expending a spell slot.

Ride the waves: you are always under the effect of the water walk spell.

On the other hand... Maelstrom is a cool word.. sooo...

Unbound Maelstrom: once per long rest, invoke the oceans ferocity. For one minute, you gain one additional action each turn which you may spend to dodge or attack with an unarmed strike. For the duration, your unarmed strikes have a range of 15 feet, and when you hit with an unarmed attack, you may spend a ki point to pull that creature 10 feet toward you.

That is fun. I’ll definitely consider it.

 

[Weiley31]

Id rather not tbh. That’s a big investment just to get a tiny pool of a secondary resource to do small beans manuevers.

That is fun. I’ll definitely consider it.

If you don't mind burning two feats/get super good chargen rolls: Then you could have said Monk take Martial Adept and Fighting Initiate: Superior Technique to gain two(or is it three?) Battlemaster Maneuvers. Parry and Rispote plus one more tech could be your choices.

Look I never said I was full of good ideas.