D&D General LORE QUESTION: Elder Elemental Evil Eye

[embee]

What is the relationship of Tharizdun, Gaunadaur, and Juiblex? Is there one?

I'm trying to come up with some kind of long-term overarching Big Bad and also want to bring in some eldritch horror stuff like aboleths and illithids. From some of my digging, I believe that Gaunadaur is tied to the Far Realm and that he (it?) may have usurped either Tharizdun or Juiblex or maybe both. Which leads me to think of maybe having them all be some kind of tripartite god with Tharzidun and Juiblex being aspects of Gaundadaur.

Like long-term, I'm thinking of having stones from the Vast Gate resurfacing in various places and then they'll be used to open a portal to the Far Realm (tracking down McGuffins being tried and true).

Am I completely off-track in my thinking? Does this work? Am I nuts for thinking this could work?

Answers are welcome.

(be gentle)

 

[dave2008]

Tharizdun is older than the other Gods (including the slime gods) and imprisoned by them for his role in creating the Abyss.

Assuming we are talking 4e lore here (since that was the OP's source), but it this correct? I don't recall the bold part in the 4e lore, but of course it was spread out all over. It would be easy to miss something.

 

[embee]

Is the goal to have the PCs fight this god/demon or just fight his proxies? I ask because if you just have a powerful being that worships the EEE, it will not matter. The PCs likely will not know or care who is pulling the strings. The elemental evil book by Wizards has mention of the EEE, but the PCs fight prophets of the god and only 1 element proxy. History can have all sorts of old myths and stories about who or what it is.

It also depends on the level of your game. If the game is only going to 10-12 level than you should never expect to actually fight the god. I kind of think that something this old and powerful will need a party of 20+ level PCs escorted with several groups of allies that can take on the gods minions.

Right now, they're level 7. And I figure that it will ultimately end with them trying to drive the EEE back into the Far Realm.

The great thing about a collect the McGuffins series (think all of the Infinity Stones in MCU) is that there can be a BBEG or a dungeon delve for each stone and I can have s side quest here and there to get a stone.

 

[jgsugden]

Just to mention it - I found it important / useful to make everything related to the Far Realm up beyond stealing names. I want it to be foreign, unpredictable, surprising, and messed up when the players encounter ... so Imake sure that it subverts expectations in any way I can.

In my setting, the Far Realm collided with the Main Continuity long ago. This even shattered the planes, resulting in the creation of the transitive planes, turning Devils into Demons, and a host of other things. It is one of my favorite elements of my campaign - and pretty much every element of the Far Realm incursion is a new story for new players to my setting. I find that to be really rewarding and useful.

 

[Flamestrike]

Assuming we are talking 4e lore here

4E lore is Dawn War/ Nentir Vale/ Nerath.

Presuming the existence of Ghaunudar who only exists in FR's Drow pantheon, I presumed Aber-Toril.

In syain that I am mindful that Tharizdun was originally a Greyhawk deity, and has only recently been imported to FR (5E onwards).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's worth while considering the real world history of these deities. Tharizdun goes all the way back to 1st edition, and was clearly based on the works of Lovecraft. The Far Realms is also based on Lovecraft but is a much more recent addition to D&D cosmology. So the reason Tharizdun isn't associated with the Far Realms is the Far Realms wasn't invented at the time it was created.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

It's worth while considering the real world history of these deities. Tharizdun goes all the way back to 1st edition, and was clearly based on the works of Lovecraft. The Far Realms is also based on Lovecraft but is a much more recent addition to D&D cosmology. So the reason Tharizdun isn't associated with the Far Realms is the Far Realms wasn't invented at the time it was created.

Publication history[edit]​

Created by Gary Gygax based on Robert J. Kuntz's dark god "Tharzduun",[4] Tharizdun first appeared in the module Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.[5][6][7] He would later appear in Gygax's series of Gord novels. Writer Michal Tresca speculated that Tharizdun might have been inspired by Clark Ashton Smith's Demon Lord and ruler of the Seven Hells, Thasaidon,[7] who appeared first in The Tomb-Spawn, Weird Tales, Vol. 23, No. 5, May 1934.[8][9]

[source--Wikipedia]

That was a pretty good guess by Tresca as the Dark God was indeed inspired by CA Smith's Thasaidon. So--Thasaidon>Tharzdu'un>Tharizdun (EGG's take on my 1 1/2 pages presented to him). He took it in a similar direction; and then I expanded on T. in Dark Druids (Troll Lord Games( d20) and Chaotic Henchmen (1E)). It has since morphed into other realms and areas that I have not kept up with; but even by the time of Maure Castle (Dungeon #112) I was still linking him into Oerthly affairs via that accursed family.

 

[dave2008]

4E lore is Dawn War/ Nentir Vale/ Nerath.

Presuming the existence of Ghaunudar who only exists in FR's Drow pantheon, I presumed Aber-Toril.

In syain that I am mindful that Tharizdun was originally a Greyhawk deity, and has only recently been imported to FR (5E onwards).

There were FR and Eberron and DS setting updates in 4e, it was not just the Nentir Vale. The OP specifically stated he was using 4e material, so I assumed you were talking about 4e too. I don't recall if Big T was part of FR in 4e, but he was part of Nentir Vale

From a post on Stack Exchange:

Finally, according to the 4e FR Campaign Guide (page 64):

The greater god Ghaunadaur is the mightiest of all entities that are thought to be touched by the Far Realm.

 

[embee]

There were FR and Eberron and DS setting updates in 4e, it was not just the Nentir Vale. The OP specifically stated he was using 4e material, so I assumed you were talking about 4e too. I don't recall if Big T was part of FR in 4e, but he was part of Nentir Vale

My thing is (a) There is no Tharzidun in 5e (yet) and (b) this is just homebrew for personal use, not publication.

I'd love for it to be somewhat accurate but I don't know how bogged down obsessed with this setting vs that I care to be.

Right now, I'm going to start the overarching plot with Reidoth having had been a foulspawn that had taken Reidoth's form, body snatcher style. As he was druid, his lair is in a corrupted forest and there can be pods with gestating replacements.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

My thing is (a) There is no Tharzidun in 5e (yet) and (b) this is just homebrew for personal use, not publication.

I'd love for it to be somewhat accurate but I don't know how bogged down obsessed with this setting vs that I care to be.

Right now, I'm going to start the overarching plot with Reidoth having had been a foulspawn that had taken Reidoth's form, body snatcher style. As he was druid, his lair is in a corrupted forest and there can be pods with gestating replacements.

Once this idea got worked, reworked, and in some cases spread around will-nilly across realms, and in works non-TSR/WotC (Gary's Gord Novels through NIPI, for example) that are not "D&D canon", well, everyone was left to their own to sort out the fractured mess of it all, much as it is with Greyhawk, I might add.

Since I started this, I'm sticking with my own interpretations and name, even though I admit that Gary did great expanding on the initial idea; everyone, top down, has to go their own (applied) direction with it

 

[dave2008]

My thing is (a) There is no Tharzidun in 5e (yet) ...

What do you mean by this? Tharzidun is listed in the DMG. Is the issue that it hasn't been in a specific adventure?