D&D 5E Are we at, or close, to peak D&D? Again?

[amethal]

And before I ruffle any feathers: if you play RPGs with nothing but a Zoom call, more power to you... I'm merely speculating that further integration of tech and real life roleplaying / storytelling mechanics (as opposed to videogames trying to do away with the GM entirely) might cause a whole new wave of hype.

We played Pathfinder over Zoom without much trouble, but we don't use mats or miniatures anyway.

Also played D&D 5th edition using Roll 20, until we were able to go back to playing in person. The people who were new to the game found Roll 20 easier in some respects e.g. making ability checks.

 

[TheSword]

I was thinking about some features that are already lowkey implemented in telepresence software, like AI-assisted direction e.g. when I bend over the table to point at a token, the viewport knows where I'm pointing and puts it in focus. Or features AR-like features where we can look at the same virtual magic item and turn it around for each other's inspection or push the 'battle mat' towards another player. Stuff that exists conceptually but is not commonplace in consumer tech just yet.

But you're posing a really hard question - I already said in my first post that I don't know what the new design paragdigm would look like. Again, I just have a hunch that current state of the art is far from ideal and if it improves dramatically, it might give the hobby a whole new leash of life.

EDIT: It's funny you bring up the rules system though... one thing I have learned this year is that the current rulesets involve a lot of waiting around for other players to take their turns. Not a big deal off-line but online it can sometimes be hard to keep everyone's attention focused. I could see clever designers coming up with ways to have players 'out of the spotlight' (in RP or combat turns) more engaged. But here too, I'm not smart enough to see the solution... just chafing at the limitation of our current systems and tech.

I agree, it’s interesting what may come. The Sony Walkman got terrible focus group feedback because nobody could imagine listening to music outside. How do you know you really want a new, unique, luxury item until you’ve had a while using it.

I think what we have to be careful about is removing hackability. Currently I can buy a token set from Roll20 or a licensed module and get professionally produced content. However I can also spend 30 mins on google and checking my Patreon’s and paint3D and make something equally good if not better - just not original.

My concern with some developments like 3d objects is that it sets the bar quite high for users adding their own content. It’s the same reason I’ve rejected VTTs that use 3d maps and tokens or animated assets. As pretty as it is, It just sets the bar too high for work. An attractive and extremely flexible 2D image is more practical than a more complete 3D or animated image.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

D&D will eventually crash because at some point, a C-suite executive will say, "This thing practically sells itself! Only an idiot could screw this up!"

Middle management at Hasbro: "Well then, we will have to come up with a better idiot."

 

[jayoungr]

Easy money I spend on games vs money on books.

But you're assuming that everyone spends the same amount and using that to make broad statements about which one is better value for everyone, not just for you. What could be a better value than free?

 

[Parmandur]

I don't really understand how something like Dungeons and Dragons is a viable business model, honestly.

I bought a few rulebooks from Wizards, but I can't think of any reason to ever give them any more money. I've got what I need to create, I don't need a load of irrelevant guff on top of that.

Warhammer or Magic is different, it's all about collecting more stuff. But I don't really get why anyone would buy a book like Tasha's.

The business model straight up didn't work during 2E, 3.X, or 4E. Hence all the bankruptcy, firings, and reboots.

The current books sell well, and in my experience children who cannot read yet love them as art objects. That sort of primal appeal works even on older children, and adults. Mearls stated in the way back that one of their main goals was to make books people wanted as art objects as much as game material...and so they have done.

 

[fearsomepirate]

The business model straight up didn't work during 2E, 3.X, or 4E. Hence all the bankruptcy, firings, and reboots.

The current books sell well, and in my experience children who cannot read yet love them as art objects. That sort of primal appeal works even on older children, and adults. Mearls stated in the way back that one of their main goals was to make books people wanted as art objects as much as game material...and so they have done.

IMO the only sustainable business model is what 5e is doing now: focus on adventures, occasionally dropping something more permanent in response to player demand. The revenue from a hardback rule book is deceptive, since the marginal utility of each additional rule book for the players constantly declines. 5e adventures continue to sell well, even if it seems they're unpopular with the forum crowd.

 

[payn]

IMO the only sustainable business model is what 5e is doing now: focus on adventures, occasionally dropping something more permanent in response to player demand. The revenue from a hardback rule book is deceptive, since the marginal utility of each additional rule book for the players constantly declines. 5e adventures continue to sell well, even if it seems they're unpopular with the forum crowd.

Yeah there is a lot of nose turning at published adventures but its the secret to Paizo's success.

 

[prabe]

IMO the only sustainable business model is what 5e is doing now: focus on adventures, occasionally dropping something more permanent in response to player demand. The revenue from a hardback rule book is deceptive, since the marginal utility of each additional rule book for the players constantly declines. 5e adventures continue to sell well, even if it seems they're unpopular with the forum crowd.

I have understood roughly since I started with 5E that I was not exactly the target market--I don't like published adventures, or really even settings, so I'm really reluctant to buy either--but I have come to understand that the hardcover adventures are more of a moneymaker. I'm happy to have WotC make more money on D&D by selling stuff I don't want to other people, so long as it keeps the game alive.

 

[S'mon]

5e adventures continue to sell well, even if it seems they're unpopular with the forum crowd.

A lot of new GMs assume WOTC stuff must be better than whatever they can come up with themselves. Or even that playing D&D means playing published adventures.

 

[TheSword]

The business model straight up didn't work during 2E, 3.X, or 4E. Hence all the bankruptcy, firings, and reboots.

The current books sell well, and in my experience children who cannot read yet love them as art objects. That sort of primal appeal works even on older children, and adults. Mearls stated in the way back that one of their main goals was to make books people wanted as art objects as much as game material...and so they have done.

The books are beautiful. The art is hands above previous editions as is the design.