D&D 5E Revising Classic Settings

[The Glen]

I heard we got those from white dwarf so super unlikely.

Twas a joke. There's a few old references that got changed because of what it sounded like. The city of Specularum was changed to Mirros because of what it sounded like. In Latin it means Watchtower. But people couldn't stop snickering even if they knew what it meant

 

[Mind of tempest]

Twas a joke. There's a few old references that got changed because of what it sounded like. The city of Specularum was changed to Mirros because of what it sounded like. In Latin it means Watchtower. But people couldn't stop snickering even if they knew what it meant

yeah, not seeing it.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Or, they keep it, because who the heck makes that connection?

Maybe because Spanish language is my mother tongue, my naive languange. It is sounds as "escroto", the Spanish word for scrotum.

Did you know? The name of the Lone Ranger's friend, Tonto, was changed into "Toro" ( = bull) because in Spanish language "tonto" means "dumb". Or a Kagami, a character from "Prodigious: the adventures of Ladybug and Cat Noir) in the Latino Spanish the name was changed into "Agami" because Kagami sounds too much as the Spanish verb "cagar" ( = sh*t).

 

[Mecheon]

Is it though? I was talking with my son yesterday (he is 20) and he was saying that he has been thinking about playing D&D again, but he wants to do it in Game of Thrones style. I think Greyhawk could be brought back to fill that niche. Possibly, I don't really know too much about the setting.

Honestly though I'd say that'd be square peg, round hole. Ironically D&D has a setting that'd launch it very much to that style of playing but, it isn't Greyhawk. Its Birthright.

The fact folks are talking about very specific settings here and I think I'm the first to bring up Birthright shows how popular that setting was.

Greyhawk's problem is it moreso has to try to stand out against other settings with its own niche. That nations at war/powderkeg feeling? Unfortunately Eberron and Wildemont already got that one going on spades, and the latter also has the boost of one of the most popular D&D streams. As a fantasy land? FR's gone and done that

Greyhawk needs a niche for them to do a full setting book. I suspect any Greyhawk stuff will just be more like Saltmarsh, little bits and pieces of Greyhawk being updated that could also be pried off of Greyhawk easily and slotted into other worlds. Those little "Can grab and use anywhere" things are what WotC seem to be enjoying at the moment, especially with Candlekeep, so I suspect that's how they'll procede

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Greyhawk needs a niche for them to do a full setting book. I suspect any Greyhawk stuff will just be more like Saltmarsh, little bits and pieces of Greyhawk being updated that could also be pried off of Greyhawk easily and slotted into other worlds. Those little "Can grab and use anywhere" things are what WotC seem to be enjoying at the moment, especially with Candlekeep, so I suspect that's how they'll procede

To be fair, I actually think Ghosts of Saltmarsh captured a lot of the appeal of Greyhawk. It felt like a much more low-magic setting, where the PCs are the best heroes around. Although there are plain evil threats like Sahuagin, there are also more nuanced conflicts with the nautral lizardmen and corrupt town council. This is not a golden age, but a world in decline, where the forces of darkness will likely win by just waiting for the nations of good to falter and weaken under their own squabbles and greed.

It reminded me a lot of the Witcher, or Game of Thrones (specifically the Arya/Hound stuff), where the problems are a bit more grounded and local. Not for everyone of course, but I think there is a lot of appeal there for folks.

 

[TheSword]

I don't believe Dark Sun will come back without a massive overhaul. It's a setting with slavery and exploitation at the core of civilized living.

And those things are explicitly recognized as evil and wrong, and perpetuated by bad and evil leaders.

I have no problem with slavery in game, gladiators, conscripted labourers, slave soldiers etc as long as I’m trying to defeat the b’stards who are doing this to people.

There is a reason newly freed Tyr was the main campaign setting.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

And those things are explicitly recognized as evil and wrong, and perpetuated by bad and evil leaders.

I have no problem with slavery in game, gladiators, conscripted labourers, slave soldiers etc as long as I’m trying to defeat the b’stards who are doing this to people.

There is a reason newly freed Tyr was the main campaign setting.

Dude.

Just because you profoundly do not understand that there is a problem does not mean that there is not a problem.

You could not just bring back Dark Sun "as is" from 2E or even 4E and expect it to be well-regarded. Muls, for example, whilst perhaps a "cool concept" in 1992, are actually a synthesis of a bunch of horrifically racist stuff when it comes down to it. And with slavery, just making it a case of "well they're the baddies so it's fine" is really not getting it. If you're centering slavery in the way earlier versions of DS did, you need to engage with it in a more complex and serious way than D&D really allows for, I'd suggest.

 

[TheSword]

Dude.

Just because you profoundly do not understand that there is a problem does not mean that there is not a problem.

You could not just bring back Dark Sun "as is" from 2E or even 4E and expect it to be well-regarded. Muls, for example, whilst perhaps a "cool concept" in 1992, are actually a synthesis of a bunch of horrifically racist stuff when it comes down to it. And with slavery, just making it a case of "well they're the baddies so it's fine" is really not getting it. If you're centering slavery in the way earlier versions of DS did, you need to engage with it in a more complex and serious way than D&D really allows for, I'd suggest.

Okay. That’s you’re opinion. There are lots of really bad things that happen in games. Genocide, invasion, human sacrifice, piracy, murder, mass starvation, and world ending destruction.

I believe that Muls need a re-work. The name is far too close to the dated and offensive and should just be replaced with half-dwarf just like half elf and half giant.

In principle though I see no problem being able to explore issues of slavery in a game context. Provided the game isn’t encouraging or enabling that behaviour. Odyssey of the Dragonlords had Minotaur slave gladiators The PCs are strongly encouraged to free at least one of them.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Okay. That’s you’re opinion. There are lots of really bad things that happen in games. Genocide, invasion, human sacrifice, piracy, murder, mass starvation, and world ending destruction.

I believe that Muls need a re-work. The name is far too close to the dated and offensive and should just be replaced with half-dwarf just like half elf and half giant.

In principle though I see no problem being able to explore issues of slavery in a game context. Provided the game isn’t encouraging or enabling that behaviour. Odyssey of the Dragonlords had Minotaur slave gladiators The PCs are strongly encouraged to free at least one of them.

See, your example is proving my point.

You're talking about a setting where slavery is not common, not everyday, not centered or focused on, and acting like, because it technically had a scene involving slavery, that's the same as a setting built around slavery.

This is what I'm trying to get across to you: that's not the same. That you think it is, is demonstrating a problem in your thinking (imho of course). It's making you unable to comprehend the premise that other people are working from. Even if those others are wrong, you don't even get where they're coming from.

Genocide, invasion, human sacrifice, piracy, murder, mass starvation, and world ending destruction.

Okay, make a game setting that centers genocide, holocaust-style genocide, or even Rwanda-style genocide, in the way that Dark Sun centers slavery, and see how that works out for you, eh? Because it's not going to work out well. I can't think of any games that center on-screen "mass starvation" or even human sacrifice in that way, and murder and invasion are so vague as to be meaningless. Piracy seems pretty randomly thrown in there - "You wouldn't download a car!". World-ending destruction is averted, generally speaking. Settings are either set before it, or after it, and I guarantee any one set in the utter misery of "during" in it, when it's not possible to avert, would not do great.

To be clear, I'm not saying you're not entitled to an opinion here. I'm saying you literally don't understand what the objection is here, and once you do understand it, then your opinion could be a lot more useful.

 

[Mecheon]

in the way that Dark Sun centers slavery

I think here's where we're having the disconnect, as I'd argue very strongly that Dark Sun doesn't centralise slavery. Its a setting element, yes, but a central one? You can very easily have adventures in Dark Sun where it will never come up. I would not call it a central element in Dark Sun at all.

World-ending destruction is averted, generally speaking. Settings are either set before it, or after it, and I guarantee any one set in the utter misery of "during" in it, when it's not possible to avert, would not do great.

That's Dark Sun's whole thing. The world is dead and there's people trying to make it worse. You have the chance to stand up against them and make it better. Its Mad Max or Conan. Honestly there's a good argument for enviromentalism being a strong theme in it.