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D&D 5E Revising Classic Settings


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I really, really hope they don't combine Spelljammer and Planescape. They have such very different tones .Even if you ignore the silliness in Spelljammer, it's still gonzo space opera, which is very different from Planescape's more somber and philosophical tone.
I can't see 21st century WotC going big on either philosophy or silliness. Neither have the kind of mass market appeal they are looking for.

I think it's more likely that an update of either would become more of a "planet of the week" Star Trek style space opera.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Which can be gotten around by making them into a lineage of their own.

(Although, as a person with ovaries, I would be more than happy to have adventures taking the sex slavers and forced-breeding facilitators down; perhaps strangely, it's the men in my group who would likely be the most uncomfortable dealing with that issue.)

It's not something I usually put in my games.

Slavery exists at a basic level, sometimes it crops up eg slave raids fight them off.

Sex slavery not so much as you don't want to be "that guy" and no one's ever asked to buy a sex slave.

Fine in a book setting eg Dune universe in game yeah it's iffy.
 

Coroc

Hero
Dark Sun was a great setting. It is very much a product of the 90's, warts and all. It could stand to be updated, not watered down, but updated to be as groundbreaking as the original. Muls, like 1E half-orcs, need a rework. In a world of ecological apocalypse and magical tampering of evolution, why would Muls necessarily be 'bred' for slavery? Muls are just another way, like psionic ability, the natural world is making stronger candidates for survival.
Chattel Slavery doesn't need to be ever present. The Sorcerer Kings are in complete control. The templars, merchants, and nobles owe their position to them. The rest of the population is similar servitude without the need for echoes of history. Food, water, and safety are all limited resources. Control is easy for those with power. Slavery takes many forms after all.

I'd do a complete reboot. Not just a calendar advance. Set 5E Dark Sun after the appearance of the first Avangion. The Veiled Alliance becomes a crusade of preservers, a scourge to Freed City-States and those under the yoke of Sorcerer Kings. The Dragon still exists. How will the party navigate this chaotic land?
1. Dark Sun still is a great setting, and i see ways to make it work with 5e but you need to put on grognard googles xtreme for it to reach that tone. And since todays generation will not even remotely understand what that tone is - it is also useless to try and explain it to them, they do not know that rock'n'roll feeling because they never experienced all the circumstances themselves, it is like my parents telling me about ww2, they experienced it as kids but i will only get an idea on how it possibly was, but that's about it -
and since wotc wants to sell to younger people also, they will not do it right, basta, no use discussing it.

2. Muls are a crossbread between human and dwarves, a thing normally not possible in other settings, and muls are sterile like the namegiving horse/donkey crossbreed, so even if possible, there is no point in it.
With halfgiants it is even stated that their origins are because of magical help, since it would not work out the normal way.
But every race is stronger in DS so evolution parallel to the breeding of special slave races already did what you propagated. It is just muls not only are stronger, they also need less water than other races so in many circumstances they are more optimized. Being a bit dull they also do not tend to rebell as easy, as long as the basic needs are covered.

3. You do not navigate in DS. Travel is an adventure on its own, it is not taking the five o clock caravan from Tyr to Urik at fridays.
 

amethal

Adventurer
Sorry my comment made you salty. But you do realize every other D&D setting talked about here was created by TSR, right? So their list of created settings is way more than one.
I probably didn't express myself very well in my initial post, but yes, I do realise TSR created various settings, and it wasn't my intention to imply otherwise.

What I was trying to say was that just as nobody would (I hope) seek to claim that Forgotten Realms is not a TSR / WotC setting, despite it originally being created by someone else, Eberron is also a WotC setting despite many (but not all) of the ideas in the original setting book having originated with Keith Baker.
 

Faolyn

Hero
It's not something I usually put in my games.

Slavery exists at a basic level, sometimes it crops up eg slave raids fight them off.

Sex slavery not so much as you don't want to be "that guy" and no one's ever asked to buy a sex slave.
True. But while it's never been said out loud, sex slavery--at least in the forced-breeding sense--clearly been a part of Dark Sun from the second they decided that muls and half-giants were born from forced breeding. So in that case, yes, I would be glad to take those slavers down.
 

Faolyn

Hero
I can't see 21st century WotC going big on either philosophy or silliness. Neither have the kind of mass market appeal they are looking for.

I think it's more likely that an update of either would become more of a "planet of the week" Star Trek style space opera.
Spelljammer was silly, but it wasn't Toon--the silliness was in the background detail. The actual concept of Spelljammer was fairly serious. It just had some fairly silly things, like goofy monsters such as the lutem (the mud women I mentioned), or anything related to the Dragonlance-based tinker gnomes, or the dohwar.

And as for silliness in general, the crypt of Curse of Strahd had some horrifically pun-based names on the tombs--so horrific, I had to change them to names that didn't make me want to gouge my own eyes out.

I don't really see the philosophy of Planescape being a big issue either. It's not like the game required you, the player, to be philosophical.
 



Zardnaar

Legend
True. But while it's never been said out loud, sex slavery--at least in the forced-breeding sense--clearly been a part of Dark Sun from the second they decided that muls and half-giants were born from forced breeding. So in that case, yes, I would be glad to take those slavers down.

Yeah it's an easy target and in DS my PCs fought against slavery.

It's not so much that it exists but depends on how graphic the DM describes stuff. Or how much relish they take in describing things.

Personally I'm fine with mist things but the gory details are left out. Things like that happen off camera.
 

2. Muls are a crossbread between human and dwarves, a thing normally not possible in other settings, and muls are sterile like the namegiving horse/donkey crossbreed, so even if possible, there is no point in it.
With halfgiants it is even stated that their origins are because of magical help, since it would not work out the normal way.
But every race is stronger in DS so evolution parallel to the breeding of special slave races already did what you propagated. It is just muls not only are stronger, they also need less water than other races so in many circumstances they are more optimized. Being a bit dull they also do not tend to rebell as easy, as long as the basic needs are covered.

Could muls be created by means of reincarnation? In the real life the male mules are steriles, but the females can breed, but only with one of the two species.

I think Dark Sun would lose absolutely nothing of its essential character if the sterility and forced-breeding aspect of muls (and the name) was retconned out of existence, and they just became half-dwarves.
 

Today the politically correct and cancel culture is very hard today. When you don't notice you may be in serious troubles because (a no Catholic) somebody has been offended.

There are half-dwarf races mixed with no-humans published as PC races by 3PPs, even mixture dwarf-orc and dwarf-elf.

If there are roleplayers of Gor in SL you can imagine what they could do with DS if they find the ways to...

* Are half-giants retconened/recastered as goliaths?

* Dark Sun not only was tribal-punk but its look was too special and unique.

* What happens with the characters from the novels if these were enoughly popular? The iconic characters are an important hook to promote the franchise as multimedia project.

* Do you think the reboot will add the races from the expanded psionic powers? the dromites, for example. And what about the athasian genasis from 4th Ed?

* What if a player wants a life-shaper Rhul-taun (halfling subrace) using a homebreed variant of the biohacker class from Starfinder? She could craft a crossbow with a little motor to reload itself, using muscles by a pistol shrimp.

* What if there is a game-live podcast where darkskin players are in DS kicking-ass those dammed slaver-trafficers?

* I feel a lot of curiosity because the metaplot of DS because something was insinuated because there was a menace worse than the Dragon Tyr himself, but it was not Rajaat, I suposse.
 

Coroc

Hero
I think Dark Sun would lose absolutely nothing of its essential character if the sterility and forced-breeding aspect of muls (and the name) was retconned out of existence, and they just became half-dwarves.
To cater to whom?

I think FR would loose nothing if they left out the dragonborn.

I think PHB would loose nothing if they did leave out drow as a playable race.

What itches you? Darksun is partially a very evil world so "force-breeding" would be one of the lesser acts of violence.
 





MGibster

Legend
I think about the only classic setting I'd work on is maybe Forgotten Realms. As much as I liked some of the smaller niche settings like Dark Sun, Planescape, and some of the others I'm not really sure bringing them back is a great idea. Instead of looking backwards maybe we'd all be better off looking forward and creating new settings instead that reflect what the majority of modern customers want.
 

Coroc

Hero
... .I mean, with slavery, we can at least pretend that it doesn't involve rape. ....
Yea? Really? Is this the Cindarella version of slavery then? Slavery in general means people are property of other people. It means that those other people can do with their slaves what they want, be it torture, rape or kill - just when they feel like it, that is. There might have been historic examples where some rules prevented the worst (most of the time), but still that is my definition of slavery.

Within Darksun, slaves of the sorcerer king get to slaughter each other in the arena, or be sacrificed for the glory and power of the sorcerer king, but ok thats not as ugly as rape, is it?

With Half Giants it is they are not rape bred at all, the first were created magically, like e.g. owlbears in other settings.
They afaik can breed with each other (free willed), and that is the method to get more of them.

And just because those two races are highly in demand, e.g. for manual labor, guard and army tasks, free or enslaved, this does not mean that every other classic DS race cannot be enslaved also (or the product of forcebreeding born into slavery , just born to two similar species as enslaved parents eventiually).
 

Mind of tempest

Adventurer
I think about the only classic setting I'd work on is maybe Forgotten Realms. As much as I liked some of the smaller niche settings like Dark Sun, Planescape, and some of the others I'm not really sure bringing them back is a great idea. Instead of looking backwards maybe we'd all be better off looking forward and creating new settings instead that reflect what the majority of modern customers want.
reworking FR would be near impossible unless you want to make a new default setting first.
Within Darksun, slaves of the sorcerer king get to slaughter each other in the arena, or be sacrificed for the glory and power of the sorcerer king, but ok thats not as ugly as rape, is it?
I get the sneaking suspicion that people generally think that it is less ugly, most likely because those are not things we hear about happening.
 

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