D&D 5E Revising Classic Settings

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I believe that Muls need a re-work. The name is far too close to the dated and offensive and should just be replaced with half-dwarf just like half elf and half giant.
I'm doing Dark Sun for one of my pending games; I just call them half-dwarves. They're also fairly common, more so than dwarves. They're more akin to the Khoravor half-elves from Eberron, as their own standalone race.
 

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squibbles

Adventurer
[...]
Dark Sun:
Wizards already rebooted this setting in 4th Ed. They'd probs keep it the same as that. Set things just after the Tyr uprising.
I hope they don't set things just after the Tyr uprising.

There are lots of interesting things to do with Dark Sun that aren't ones we've already gotten.

Consider that they've never done anything with the region on the east side of the Sea of Silt (or its north shore, or its south shore). I'm sure there are lots of other sorcerer kings and such over there--one's who didn't build their petty kingdoms in imitation of real-world societies--ones where socially dubious setting elements are either absent or more fastidiously written. The planet would still be dying from magic fossil fuel overuse, psionics would still be everywhere, metal would still be scarce, and the desert would still be murderous. And it could still connect to the prior publications--the dragon still comes for his his levy or, post-pentad, weird things are happening with the cerulean storm/earthquakes.

Or if they skipped ahead several decades post-pentad--to a point when most book characters have died of old age (and taken knowledge of the hamfisted meta plot to the grave with them). The Tyr region is now menaced by Dregoth and nearly as bleak as it ever was, though WotC could take an opportunity to make social changes due to the time jump.

The expectation I always got from the original boxed set was that you would be fighting against that systemic slavery and exploitation.

In Dark Sun, the current status quo is the real enemy, and your job is to kill it one sorcerer-king and defiler at a time.

Honestly, I think it’s the one setting that DOESN’T need much in the way of a 5e cultural overhaul.
My expectation about slavery and the other evils of Dark Sun was that PCs were expected to oppose or be harmed by them, but that the status quo wasn't going anywhere. According to The Wanderer Journal (p. 6)

"we know from the sheer number of their chronicles that most city-states are thousands of years old. The same sorcerer-king rules over the city for spans of hundreds of years, sometimes for more than a thousand. There are even cases where the current sovereign is credited with founding the city. As incredible as such claims sound, do not discredit them too readily. It is certain that powerful sorcerers live for centuries, and I know of no king that has died in my lifetime, or that of my father or his father."​

PC's are -first- out to survive. If they accomplish that, they can maybe make some local difference--but the world is still doomed and the selfish people who doomed it so that they could rule its ashes aren't going anywhere.

Yeah, folks will absolutely love Dark Sun. Its going to come back with slavery as this thing that your characters are specifically out there to stop. Folks thinking mentions of it are going to stop things are dramatically misreading what people are complaining about. Some of the nations will need reworking, absolutely, but, honestly? Taking the 4E approach to it and going from there is fairly safe. "Here's one place that's broken away from the yoke of an evil tyrant sorcerer king. The rest of the world is still in their grip. What do you do?"
I think Dark Sun will come back, slavery and all.

I'm seeing a lot of assumptions that there'd be outrage over the setting because of the fact that slavery exists there. I think a lot of these assumptions are coming from a flawed understanding of what people do and don't get upset about when it comes to RPG content. If slavery is portrayed as an evil to be fought, as it always was in Dark Sun, then I suspect there'll be very little argument over that.

What changes there might be could be to move the city-states a bit away from cribbing off identifiable real-world civilisations (it's a bit eye-rolly when the only identifiable Cambodian-inspired content in official WotC D&D, for instance, is an evil desert city-state...), and probably a rethinking about whether templars are playable as PCs, given their inextricable identification with a profoundly evil slavery-perpetuating regime. And yes I know, Kurn is a thing, but it's the exception that proves the rule.
I'm not sure what they can do about the city-states being culture copies. On the one hand, it's super cool for Nibenay's Khmer-flavored goodness to get some coverage, same with the depictions of central African Gulg and Indian Raam--and it would be a shame if that was removed. On the other hand, there isn't enough room in the piddling little city-states to give any oxygen to those milieu. How much Khmer stuff can really go into an island of culture in a sea of Mad Max that neither informs the culture nor is affected by it. And the strong implication is that these islands of culture are just reflections of the interests and proclivities of their thousand-year-old eccentric jerkwad dictators. Why does Balic have a Senate? Because Andropinus like senates and decided that his toy city would have one.

Hence my suggestion for them not to do the uprising in Tyr setup yet again.

Beyond the Prism Pentad has an interesting bit about Lilali Puy sending her templars abroad to quasi-religiously advocate for the restoration of forests on Athas (as a power play to spread her city's influence). That, at least, would justify an extended cultural writeup.
 


Dragonlance/Krynn: Draconians are anything BUT "just dragonborn." They need to be their own, completely independent and separate creatures...with five distinct, completely individual sub-types that all do different things. Tinker gnomes, gully dwarves, and kender are supremely irritating, and I wish they'd never been created, but they are distinctly and foundationally "Krynn." They have to stay in and receive their own gnome, dwarf, halfling, respectively, sub-races. Play up the "Moon-alignment (arcane) Magic" thing. Play up the Krynn Pantheon of deities, besides just Paladine ("Fizban"), Mishakal, Takhisis. It was a rich, pretty cool pantheon/mythology.

Don't think we need two or three slightly different types of dragon-folk. And one whose one unique thing is dying in weird ways is much less cool than breathing fire and lightening.
And the degenerate innately evil race is rather racist. Wizards be avoiding it now.

Moon alignment never worked at the table. Tracking three different moons and the exact passage of time was boring bookkeeping. And it wasn't fun to be adventuring when your moon was low and you sucked balls and then doing a social adventure with no combat or downtime days at full moon o'clock.

Greyhawk doesn't need to change a thing. Just reprint/put out the original box set "anniversary edition," better and more abundantly illustrated, and make everyone happy.

You can get the original folio printed on demand on dmsguild.com. Not sure why they'd need to reprint beyond that.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
I don't see how Tasslehoff having or lacking a penis is a fundamental aspect of the character. Its not like Tas or Flint got any action during the main novels.
Introduce Tas' nephew / aunt / neighbor / a hero-worshipping kid down the block / whatever, and write them as the character you desire. Do not write a new character and stick Tas' name on him/her.
 

And those things are explicitly recognized as evil and wrong, and perpetuated by bad and evil leaders.

I have no problem with slavery in game, gladiators, conscripted labourers, slave soldiers etc as long as I’m trying to defeat the b’stards who are doing this to people.

There is a reason newly freed Tyr was the main campaign setting.
The prob is that having slavery encourages the players to be "oppressions tourists." It turns real people's pain into their characters tragic emo backstory. And brings an ugly thing people might want to escape into their DnD.

It comes up a couple times in the BlackAF panel in D&D Live 2020
 

Introduce Tas' nephew / aunt / neighbor / a hero-worshipping kid down the block / whatever, and write them as the character you desire. Do not write a new character and stick Tas' name on him/her.
If it's a complete reboot and not a continuation how would that work?

Everyone freaked out over that happening in BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and that was just fine. For a couple seasons at least.
 

grimslade

Krampus ate my d20s
Dark Sun. I love the Burnt World of Athas, but it needs an update. It is a setting where evil has won. The Witch-King of Angmar and all the other Nazgul threw Sauron into the outer dark and rule Middle Earth as undisputed tyrants. So let's start with some of what makes Dark Sun attractive to me.
- Grim and gritty survival in a harsh world Water is precious. Metal, a substance owned only by the fabulously wealthy.
- Magic is power taken from the land. It is a destructive force. You can lessen the destruction with patience and care or just grab power and leave ash in your wake. Magic use is reviled. It is the baddest of bad juju.
- Psionics are everywhere. The world is harsh but the harsh conditions have brought inner strength to the remaining life of Athas. This is the acceptable form of 'magic'. There are schools that teach the Will and the Way to master the Inner powers. Everyone has at least a little psionic knack, even plants.
-No gods. The celebration and protection of the elements is one religious path. The worship of Sorcerer Kings is typically the city-state mandated religion.
- Not the typical races and animals. Thri-kreen, kanks and Urdlus. Cannibal halflings and lanky desert nomad elves. Athas is alien to a traditional fantasy setting. Even the familiar is altered by the burning sands.

The rest can be up for change.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I don't see how Tasslehoff having or lacking a penis is a fundamental aspect of the character. Its not like Tas or Flint got any action during the main novels.
Just gender-flip the entire party, with the exception of Caramon and Raistlin (I think brothers fits their vibe better than sisters does). That's a much cooler party.

if that's too much, Tanis, Sturm and Riverwind are the best candidates for a gender flip.
 

It comes up a couple times in the BlackAF panel in D&D Live 2020

Hmm. I hadn't seen that before, but it's worth a watch.

A lot of the slavery discussion there sounded (to me) more like an argument for a deliberate session zero in which players could flag subject matter they wanted the game to steer clear of, which is certainly what should be done anyway.

You're right though, given the strength of conviction the panellists were talking with there, maybe the treatment of slavery in DS should indeed be rethought or rejigged somehow. Given i'm a white Australian, I'm a long way from the issue personally, but you certainly want a setting that doesn't slap the faces of a significant portion of the player base every time they open it up...
 

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