D&D 5E Using COMMAND to break a caster's concentration?

[Charlaquin]

Yes but does that end the concentration on a spell?

Setting aside the question of whether or not Commanding someone to “sleep” could successfully cause them to fall asleep (seems like there’s room to interpret it either way; ask your DM), yes, sleeping does break concentration. Sleeping by definition implies unconsciousness. An unconscious creature is incapacitated. Being incapacitated causes you to lose concentration.

 

[Charlaquin]

The 2E description sheds some light on it. In that edition sleep was one of the example commands. I always look at the spells through the editions when something like this comes up.

Wouldn’t the fact that it has been among the listed examples in previous editions but isn’t among them in 5e actually be evidence that its omission was intentional, and that it therefore shouldn’t work in 5e?

 

[Laurefindel]

Willingness is the wrong thing though.

It's about whether you can consciously cause your body to do something or not. Humans (and we can assume most humanoids in D&D) have limited control over their bodies. Like, we can't intentionally stop or start hiccoughing (generally - I had a bizarre ability to stop hiccups with a thought, 100% reliably, for like 6-7 years then it went away). We can fake a sneeze, but you can't make yourself actually sneeze (well, most people can't anyway). Nor can most people puke without getting some fingers in their throat etc. Whereas you can cough, or laugh. But what about a backflip, say? I'm pretty sure most DMs would rule that telling an NPC to backflip with command would cause them to ATTEMPT a backflip, not to succeed at a backflip.

And that's the problem here. There seems to be an assumption of success with sleep that doesn't really make any sense. If you're commanded to "Sleep", then I'm sure you'd try to go to sleep - you'd spend six seconds trying extremely hard. But why would you succeed?

That's the question? Why would there be autosuccess here and not with other things?

I think, if you're consistent, and all other Commands are always successful - i.e. "backflip" makes them actually perform a backflip if it was even physically possible, even though they couldn't do it consciously, "splits" has them close to the floor as possible, perhaps even to the admiration of Jean-Claude Van Damme, "burp" makes them burp even though they didn't have any wind to do it with, and so on, then sure, it makes sense for sleep to make them fall asleep. But if you're running it as causing the creature to attempt, completely wholeheartedly, to do that thing, whether or not they can actually succeed, which is how I've usually seen it run, then I don't think "sleep" should actually send them to sleep. It might still break concentration, depending on the DM, because they'd genuinely be trying to get to sleep, and I'm pretty sure that involves stopping concentrating on spells, but unless other Commands allow you to speak directly to the involuntary nervous system, I dunno why this should.

awww, you mean I can't command the 8 Dex cleric in full plate to sneak past the guards with guarantied success?

 

[R_J_K75]

Wouldn’t the fact that it has been among the listed examples in previous editions but isn’t among them in 5e actually be evidence that its omission was intentional, and that it therefore shouldn’t work in 5e?

I dont think so. The 5e spells says the ones listed are examples but others can be issued.

Heres the 2e description.

Command​

Level: 1
Components: V
Range: 30 yds. Component: V
AoE: 1 creature
Save: None
Casting Time : 1
Duration: 1 rd.
This spell enables the priest to command another creature with a single word. The command must be uttered in a language understood by the creature. The subject will obey to the best of his/its ability only as long as the command is absolutely clear and unequivocal; thus, a command of "Suicide!" is ignored. A command to "Die!" causes the creature to fall in a faint or cataleptic state for one round, but thereafter the creature revives and is alive and well. Typical commands are back, halt, flee, run, stop, fall, go, leave, surrender, sleep, rest, etc. No command affects a creature for more than one round; undead are not affected at all. Creatures with Intelligence of 13 (high) or more, or those with 6 or more Hit Dice (or experience levels) are entitled to a saving throw vs. spell, adjusted for Wisdom. (Creatures with 13 or higher Intelligence and 6 Hit Dice/levels get only one saving throw!)

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't know. You can apparently be trained to rapidly fall asleep. Want to Fall Asleep Faster? Combat Pilots Use This Hack to Get to Sleep in 2 Minutes or Less

Fine. So if you are fighting against a combat pilot who has been trained to fall asleep in 2 minutes, you can use Command to force them to fall asleep. In 2 minutes.

 

[J.Quondam]

Willingness is the wrong thing though.

It's about whether you can consciously cause your body to do something or not. Humans (and we can assume most humanoids in D&D) have limited control over their bodies. Like, we can't intentionally stop or start hiccoughing (generally - I had a bizarre ability to stop hiccups with a thought, 100% reliably, for like 6-7 years then it went away). We can fake a sneeze, but you can't make yourself actually sneeze (well, most people can't anyway). Nor can most people puke without getting some fingers in their throat etc. Whereas you can cough, or laugh. But what about a backflip, say? I'm pretty sure most DMs would rule that telling an NPC to backflip with command would cause them to ATTEMPT a backflip, not to succeed at a backflip.

Yeah, that's basically my view.
The way I tend to interpret it is that the command spell forces a compulsion upon the target to attempt to do something within its understanding and ability. The options listed in the spell description are pretty much autosuccess for any target. Otoh, something like "Fly" won't work for many targets because they simply can't, so the command is meaningless for them. "Vomit," being within ability and understanding, would provoke wretching, even if nothing comes up. With "sleep," the target might try for those six seconds, though it likely will not meaningfully actually get all the way to sleep; its mind and activity will be redirected to trying to do that. Similarly for a backflip: the target might not be able to actually do it, but it it has the understanding and physiology to give it the old college try, then it'll do it.

The target simply does the best it can. If that's not the interpretation, imo, then it becomes a game of the target justifying why it can't be put to sleep in only 6 seconds, or why it can't be compelled to vomit ("because there's no irritant in my gullet!") or do a backflip ("my Acrobatics skill is negative!") or whatever.

Of course, like all other interpretations, that's all just down to GM ruling. The other simplifying alternative, of course, is just to limit the exact command words (and behaviors) available in the spell, and avoid the question altogether.

So does "sleep" interrupt concentration? Because the target's mind is redirected to that result, I'd probably rule "yes"... at least until players start abusing it.

With all that said, what about the command "black out"?


[edited for typos!]

 

[el-remmen]

Of course, "To Fly" has a secondary meaning of "To Flee" - so what is the ruling on commands with multiple possible common meanings? I may not be able to literally fly, but I can flee when told Gandalf style to "Fly, you fools!"

 

[Oofta]

I agree with @Ruin Explorer on this one. People can't go to sleep on command.

I would also rule that command under normal circumstances cannot disrupt concentration. After all you can fight, cast spells, have a conversation all while concentrating.

The target could pretend to go unconscious or sleep for a round, they can't actually do it.

 

[J.Quondam]

.

Of course, "To Fly" has a secondary meaning of "To Flee" - so what is the ruling on commands with multiple possible common meanings? I may not be able to literally fly, but I can flee when told Gandalf style to "Fly, you fools!"

INT (Vocabulary) check?

 

[R_J_K75]

After all you can fight, cast spells, have a conversation all while concentrating.

RAW this to me is way more ridiculous then command breaking concentration. I never agreed with this rule and really dont use it. I mean casting a second spell imo should cancel the first.