D&D 5E Using COMMAND to break a caster's concentration?

[Li Shenron]

Then what does the sleep spell do?

Exactly what it says it does: it sends someone into magical slumber. Which is irrelevant with regard to what another spell does.

Command makes someone follow a command. You can't order someone to fly if they can't fly on their own.

 

[J.Quondam]

The sleep spell makes the target sleep. The command spell compels someone to obey an order against their will.

The way I interpret it, if your target cannot do it willingly, it cannot be compelled to do so unwillingly.

if I ask you to fall asleep, right now, on the spot, chances are you wouldn’t be able to even if you were willing to do so. Being compelled to do it unwillingly shouldn’t change that. sleep is a completely different spell with a specific effect.

i can’t think of a reason the command spell couldnt ruin the target’s concentration with the right command in the right circumstances however.

That's certainly a fair interpretation. But, to be sure, it's an interpretation that goes beyond what's stated in RAW, which says nothing about "willingness".

 

[D1Tremere]

The sleep spell makes the target sleep. The command spell compels someone to obey an order against their will.

The way I interpret it, if your target cannot do it willingly, it cannot be compelled to do so unwillingly.

if I ask you to fall asleep, right now, on the spot, chances are you wouldn’t be able to even if you were willing to do so. Being compelled to do it unwillingly shouldn’t change that. sleep is a completely different spell with a specific effect.

i can’t think of a reason the command spell couldnt ruin the target’s concentration with the right command in the right circumstances however.

I would argue that since both sleep and command are magic, and since both are the same school of magic, then both should be capable of causing the sleep state, even if it just for 1 turn in the case of command.

 

[Laurefindel]

That's certainly a fair interpretation. But, to be sure, it's an interpretation that goes beyond what's stated in RAW, which says nothing about "willingness".

Fair enough.

The willingness/unwillingness is indeed an extrapolation. A sensible one I believe, but an interprétation nonetheless.

 

[D1Tremere]

Exactly what it says it does: it sends someone into magical slumber. Which is irrelevant with regard to what another spell does.

Command makes someone follow a command. You can't order someone to fly if they can't fly on their own.

I agree that neither sleep nor command are from a school of magic that can endow a person with the ability to, say, fly. But, both are enchantment spells that compel the target, so I would argue that both operate the same way. That being the case it makes perfect sense that if one can compel a target to sleep, so can the other, albeit only for 1 turn.

 

[cmad1977]

I’d probably allow it depending on the situation and the command.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

I think it's preposterous to say that someone can sleep on command.

I don't know. You can apparently be trained to rapidly fall asleep. Want to Fall Asleep Faster? Combat Pilots Use This Hack to Get to Sleep in 2 Minutes or Less

 

[Laurefindel]

I agree that neither sleep nor command are from a school of magic that can endow a person with the ability to, say, fly. But, both are enchantment spells that compel the target, so I would argue that both operate the same way. That being the case it makes perfect sense that if one can compel a target to sleep, so can the other, albeit only for 1 turn.

That’s not how I’d interpret it, but not something that would make me flip the table in ragequit. It does make some sense (as much as D&D magic can make sense at any case)

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That's certainly a fair interpretation. But, to be sure, it's an interpretation that goes beyond what's stated in RAW, which says nothing about "willingness".

Willingness is the wrong thing though.

It's about whether you can consciously cause your body to do something or not. Humans (and we can assume most humanoids in D&D) have limited control over their bodies. Like, we can't intentionally stop or start hiccoughing (generally - I had a bizarre ability to stop hiccups with a thought, 100% reliably, for like 6-7 years then it went away). We can fake a sneeze, but you can't make yourself actually sneeze (well, most people can't anyway). Nor can most people puke without getting some fingers in their throat etc. Whereas you can cough, or laugh. But what about a backflip, say? I'm pretty sure most DMs would rule that telling an NPC to backflip with command would cause them to ATTEMPT a backflip, not to succeed at a backflip.

And that's the problem here. There seems to be an assumption of success with sleep that doesn't really make any sense. If you're commanded to "Sleep", then I'm sure you'd try to go to sleep - you'd spend six seconds trying extremely hard. But why would you succeed?

That's the question? Why would there be autosuccess here and not with other things?

I think, if you're consistent, and all other Commands are always successful - i.e. "backflip" makes them actually perform a backflip if it was even physically possible, even though they couldn't do it consciously, "splits" has them close to the floor as possible, perhaps even to the admiration of Jean-Claude Van Damme, "burp" makes them burp even though they didn't have any wind to do it with, and so on, then sure, it makes sense for sleep to make them fall asleep. But if you're running it as causing the creature to attempt, completely wholeheartedly, to do that thing, whether or not they can actually succeed, which is how I've usually seen it run, then I don't think "sleep" should actually send them to sleep. It might still break concentration, depending on the DM, because they'd genuinely be trying to get to sleep, and I'm pretty sure that involves stopping concentrating on spells, but unless other Commands allow you to speak directly to the involuntary nervous system, I dunno why this should.

 

[R_J_K75]

The 2E description sheds some light on it. In that edition sleep was one of the example commands. I always look at the spells through the editions when something like this comes up.