D&D 5E The Dual Wielding Ranger: How Aragorn, Drizzt, and Dual-Wielding Led to the Ranger's Loss of Identity

[Scott Christian]

Meh, we did it I mean, we had a cleric and a fighter/MU, and then we had about 10 hirelings. That was starting off on the first day. As soon as we got a few gold we all copied each other's spell books, so everyone had at least one GOOD combat type spell. I seem to remember we made short work of B2. It was all done with hit-n-run tactics, mostly. Pretty quickly the front line spear chuckers had scale armor and shields, we hired a fighter as a henchman because he could block an ogre (at least until it was put to Sleep, lol), etc.

I think play experiences like this were very heavily DM dependent. A group of magic users trying to go through B2 with our DM would have been dead during the first session, or at least half of them would have been killed. The DM never fudged dice rolls, and we played by the rules; which is we followed the book and made common sense approaches such as others might hear a loud noise or fight coming from the cave room next door.

 

[Minigiant]

One tough thing about the loner out there in the wilderness archetype is it is hard to imagine that loner as low level. Anyone wandering around solo in a D&D world, especially in forests full of danger, are easily level 8. So from the very beginning, the concept can be tough to swallow for some players.

That was kind of the justification of the Ranger organizations. The loner ranger is the veteran ranger, ranger knight, or captain of the rangers that can do it alone. Most rangers were in small squads or under a high level ranger mentor.

• There's a Border
• The Rangers are charged to defend the border
• The Rangers are spread across that border in small squads
• Most squads are groups of 2-4 rangers with 2-5 HD
• Some squads are a veteran rangers and his or her apprentices
• Then there is Greeny McGumpy who "doesn't need a partner"
• Greeny McGrump is the Ranger-Knight and one of 2d6 Ranger-Knights and Ranger-Lords
• Greeny McGrumpy electric blendered a whole raiding party on his own regularly
• Random low level ranger squad reveres Greeny McGrumpy as awesome hero like Faragorn the Ranger Commander
• Faragorn soloed a giant back in the day
• Random low level ranger squad spots Dark Lord's army.
• Random low level ranger squad casts animal messenger
• "Now all of China the Kingdom knows you're here"

The Ranger arcetype more or less relies on a organization or tradition to match the higher magic high fantastic feel of D&D. When you cut that out, you lose the safety net that low level rangers need.

 

[Scott Christian]

That was kind of the justification of the Ranger organizations. The loner ranger is the veteran ranger, ranger knight, or captain of the rangers that can do it alone. Most rangers were in small squads or under a high level ranger mentor.

• There's a Border
• The Rangers are charged to defend the border
• The Rangers are spread across that border in small squads
• Most squads are groups of 2-4 rangers with 2-5 HD
• Some squads are a veteran rangers and his or her apprentices
• Then there is Greeny McGumpy who "doesn't need a partner"
• Greeny McGrump is the Ranger-Knight and one of 2d6 Ranger-Knights and Ranger-Lords
• Greeny McGrumpy electric blendered a whole raiding party on his own regularly
• Random low level ranger squad reveres Greeny McGrumpy as awesome hero like Faragorn the Ranger Commander
• Faragorn soloed a giant back in the day
• Random low level ranger squad spots Dark Lord's army.
• Random low level ranger squad casts animal messenger
• "Now all of China the Kingdom knows you're here"

The Ranger arcetype more or less relies on a organization or tradition to match the higher magic high fantastic feel of D&D. When you cut that out, you lose the safety net that low level rangers need.

Yeah, I get it. But a lot of people are not looking at it that deeply. It's like basing your character off a superhero. It falls short in the very first session - because you are not a superhero at low levels. It's hard to be build a character similar to Spiderman, and then suddenly have to wait 15 levels before you can talk sarcastically to everyone without getting your butt kicked.
For many, especially young and/or new players, the ranger concept is their Spiderman.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah, I get it. But a lot of people are not looking at it that deeply. It's like basing your character off a superhero. It falls short in the very first session - because you are not a superhero at low levels. It's hard to be build a character similar to Spiderman, and then suddenly have to wait 15 levels before you can talk sarcastically to everyone without getting your butt kicked.
For many, especially young and/or new players, the ranger concept is their Spiderman.

The problem is many people forget that many superheroes went through training years.

The Xmen is a story about elder superheroes teaching younger superpowered kids to use their powers in a world that would destroy them if they don't learn and display that growth and aid.

The problem isn't Ranger, its too many new or experienced players wanting to play independent vets at level 1. You can't be Aragorn at level 1 the same reason you can't be Gimli at level 1. Wanna be level 1 Batman? Level 1 Batman is teenage Bruce in Japan learning karate. You can be level1 Robin and fight Gotham crime, but level 10+ Bruce Wayne is covering your butt. Maybe at level 3, you can join the Teen Titans.

That's why 4e and 5e stating the concept of tiers was important. For a ranger, tiers more or less displayed your range and solidified to place in the world. Even older editions displayed when your character was really considered an independent person worthy of the name of their class. Too many ignored it and this is how aspects for more niche classes got muddy.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The problem is many people forget that many superheroes went through training years.

The Xmen is a story about elder superheroes teaching younger superpowered kids to use their powers in a world that would destroy them if they don't learn and display that growth and aid.

The problem isn't Ranger, its too many new or experienced players wanting to play independent vets at level 1. You can't be Aragorn at level 1 the same reason you can't be Gimli at level 1. Wanna be level 1 Batman? Level 1 Batman is teenage Bruce in Japan learning karate. You can be level1 Robin and fight Gotham crime, but level 10+ Bruce Wayne is covering your butt. Maybe at level 3, you can join the Teen Titans.

That's why 4e and 5e stating the concept of tiers was important. For a ranger, tiers more or less displayed your range and solidified to place in the world. Even older editions displayed when your character was really considered an independent person worthy of the name of their class. Too many ignored it and this is how aspects for more niche classes got muddy.

And I think the reverse problem is also true. Aargorn is level 8 max, and so what does a true level 17 ranger look like? We don't have that conceptual space filled.

That's why I want to focus more on defending the borders of the world. The high level rangers are the ones hunting the border of the Etheral plane for the eldritch monstrosities that would tear apart cities. I think we can work with that conceptually far easier than "be aargorn, survive in the woods."

 

[Minigiant]

And I think the reverse problem is also true. Aargorn is level 8 max, and so what does a true level 17 ranger look like? We don't have that conceptual space filled.

That's why I want to focus more on defending the borders of the world. The high level rangers are the ones hunting the border of the Etheral plane for the eldritch monstrosities that would tear apart cities. I think we can work with that conceptually far easier than "be aargorn, survive in the woods."

LOTR isn't D&D. LOTR is a low level world.

Most nonAnime nonVideo game fantasy is low level. If you want to see rangers slaying invading demons, ghosts,and horrors, you need to look at media with invading fiends, undead, and abominations. And even there, rangers or their border guard equivalent usually has ranks.

 

[Chaosmancer]

LOTR isn't D&D. LOTR is a low level world.

Most nonAnime nonVideo game fantasy is low level. If you want to see rangers slaying invading demons, ghosts,and horrors, you need to look at media with invading fiends, undead, and abominations. And even there, rangers or their border guard equivalent usually has ranks.

Sure, but even in Anime or Video Game Fantasy, you don't usually see something that is more "Ranger defending borders" compared to Paladins or Fighters or Gishes. There are a few, but it isn't the most common, which makes it really hard to talk about that space, since a lot of people don't have experience with it.

 

[Scott Christian]

The problem isn't Ranger, its too many new or experienced players wanting to play independent vets at level 1. You can't be Aragorn at level 1 the same reason you can't be Gimli at level 1. Wanna be level 1 Batman? Level 1 Batman is teenage Bruce in Japan learning karate. You can be level1 Robin and fight Gotham crime, but level 10+ Bruce Wayne is covering your butt. Maybe at level 3, you can join the Teen Titans.

Well said.

 

[Scott Christian]

And I think the reverse problem is also true. Aargorn is level 8 max, and so what does a true level 17 ranger look like? We don't have that conceptual space filled.

I see it differently. Aragorn fought in wars for years and years. He has hung out with elves, spent time with dwarves, and fought alongside men. He fought off a group of Nazgul! And he is of different blood - literally, born different from others, being a Dunedain. In my view, LotR is a low level world, and he is at the top. Whether that means 17 out of 20, or 8 out of 10.

 

[Minigiant]

Sure, but even in Anime or Video Game Fantasy, you don't usually see something that is more "Ranger defending borders" compared to Paladins or Fighters or Gishes. There are a few, but it isn't the most common, which makes it really hard to talk about that space, since a lot of people don't have experience with it.

Well D&D is an anomaly. So you only see "Ranger defending borders" in MMOs.

So you are looking are looking at Rexxar Champion of the Horde and Alleria Windrunner.

One is an Orc/ogre hybrid hero of a faction who TWF axes in melee and ranged with a zoo of animal companions.
The other is special snowflake elf former ranger-captian who shoots magic arrows and has a alternate form to guard the world.