D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[Fanaelialae]

And, I'm unwilling to accept that a suggestion to try a not-D&D game built to do a specific thing that's being asked for is rude. This is running into the assumption that D&D is a thing that can be insulted or demeaned. That's silly, but a lot of people seem to put a lot of emotional investment into it so that any suggestion it is not always good is taken as a personal attack. Which is why no amount of extra niceness makes a difference.

For truly rude posts, you should report them.

It's not the suggestion that is rude, it's the way it's suggested.

While it is true that you can't be rude to a thing, you can be rude to a person. If I tell someone "that idea is stupid", I am technically only insulting their idea, not them. Obviously though, that's not how most people will take it.

Look, each person is going to do what they're going to do. The only person on ENWorld who I can force to be considerate of others is myself. And I'm certainly not perfect in that respect. But I am asking everyone who reads this to at least consider being considerate to each other. Feel free to do with that what you will.

 

[Ovinomancer]

It's not the suggestion that is rude, it's the way it's suggested.

While it is true that you can't be rude to a thing, you can be rude to a person. If I tell someone "that idea is stupid", I am technically only insulting their idea, not them. Obviously though, that's not how most people will take it.

Look, each person is going to do what they're going to do. The only person on ENWorld who I can force to be considerate of others is myself. And I'm certainly not perfect in that respect. But I am asking everyone who reads this to at least consider being considerate to each other. Feel free to do with that what you will.

Sorry, this reads like a complaint about a hypothetical. Someone may be intentionally rude, but that's not my experience. Being taken the way you suggest, though, I do see, and that's on the reader.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I feel like this is a lot of overreaction to an honest and helpful suggestion.

Saying beating a nail in with your history text book is not as ideal as using a hammer is not saying the book is bad. And yes, you certainly can shod the book in iron and duct tape a piece of wood to it as a handle, but that doesn't make the suggestion of a hammer hollow and pointing out that some hammers are poorly constructed isn't a real argument.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I feel like this is a lot of overreaction to an honest and helpful suggestion.

Saying beating a nail in with your history text book is not as ideal as using a hammer is not saying the book is bad. And yes, you certainly can shod the book in iron and duct tape a piece of wood to it as a handle, but that doesn't make the suggestion of a hammer hollow and pointing out that some hammers are poorly constructed isn't a real argument.

A closer analogy would be using a wrench to drive a nail. You can, but a hammer will do the job better. The question is: is it worth it to go to the hardware store, or should you just hang the picture with the tool you have?

In other words, without knowing the context and goal, the advice can miss the mark. But online, many people will assume the context matches their own and answer thusly.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I feel like this is a lot of overreaction to an honest and helpful suggestion.

Saying beating a nail in with your history text book is not as ideal as using a hammer is not saying the book is bad. And yes, you certainly can shod the book in iron and duct tape a piece of wood to it as a handle, but that doesn't make the suggestion of a hammer hollow and pointing out that some hammers are poorly constructed isn't a real argument.

But perhaps instead of assuming an overreaction, you might assume that the OP does, in fact, at least have a valid subjective complaint. Heck- look at your framing. Do you honestly think that this is what is happening?

"Hey guys. So, I like to hammer nails in with my paperback books. Do y'all have any suggestions as to the best paperback book to use? To Kill a Mockingbird? Or War and Peace?"
--How about you use a hammer?
"A hammer? HOW DARE! I SAY, HOW DARE YOU, GOOD SIR?!!"

On the other hand, this is a forum where people discuss TTRPGs. In fact, it even has designated "subforums" and "tags" to allow people to discuss specific TTRPGs. One of the most common topics of discussion, given it is the most popular TTRPG, is D&D.

Now, if someone is asking general questions about RPGs, of course it is helpful to provide them the best answers!

But when someone posts in the D&D subforum, and asks the question about D&D specifically, and you are providing the advice to just play some other game instead ...

Well, that is the TTRPG equivalent of "Git Gud" to a lot of people.

 

[Vaalingrade]

But perhaps instead of assuming an overreaction, you might assume that the OP does, in fact, at least have a valid subjective complaint. Heck- look at your framing. Do you honestly think that this is what is happening?

I'm talking about the people who are calling helpful suggestions and recommending new products in a monopoly as 'hollow' or worse.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm talking about the people who are calling helpful suggestions and recommending new products in a monopoly as 'hollow' or worse.

I was unaware that there was a monopoly in TTRPGs!

Obviously, given the monopoly status, there can be no helpful suggestions or new products. And no one enjoys having to deal with imaginary products.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Honestly, it all depends in how the question is asked.

“Hey guys- can you help me get D&D to do X?”

“Hey guys- what’s a good game for X?”

They’re different requests. Some confusion comes up because it’s often assumed that D&D is the default game. So instead of the first of the above, you get something like:

“Hey guys- how do I get my game to do X?”

From what I’ve seen of these discussions, the best thing to do if you ask something like the first question above, and you get “you should just play game Y” as a response....ignore it. Just don’t respond. Or maybe give it a “Like” and then move on.

Because the response will foster other responses and then those will result in even more....and pretty soon the thread isn’t about “How do I get D&D to do X” but it’s about “D&D versus Game Y”.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

When I suggested that someone should play AiME, Black Hack 2e, or another D&D-based low fantasy hack instead of D&D 5e for their low magic game, it also raised similar accusations as you raised in this thread regarding the "play this instead" advice.

Of course it did! They want to play a low magic D&D! AIME is a great suggestion for taking classes and mechanics from, and basically is low magic 5e D&D, but the others are drifting from the brief to push your own preferences on someone who probably knows what they want better than you do.

So when is suggesting that a person or group would be better off playing another game NOT hollow advice? What and where are the limits of hacking a given system, whether that's D&D or some other "bespoke game."

Why ever tell someone that? What good do you think you’re doing? You’re telling someone that their preferences are wrong, and that they don’t know their own needs and desires. It’s inherently disrespectful. Telling someone about games that do the thing, and might be useful to read up on, if they haven’t already, is great advice!
If someone wants advice to run a heist adventure in their D&D game, they aren’t asking for recommendations on heist RPGs.

This is saying that since someone might read in a lot of unintended negativity, it is the responsibility of the poster to go the extra mike and be as gracious and polite as possible.

Yes. The times I have offended people when I didn’t mean to or come across as aggressive and insulting are my responsibility, regardless of intent. If I had never recognized the behavior and started to try and fix it, it would be the right thing to do to kick me out of the forums.
How you come across is on you.

However, if someone asks how to do Aliens, that's a different question than how can I do D&D with Aliens.

It also isn’t relevant to the OP, since I’m talking specifically about people giving advice that isn’t engaging with the actual request for advice. If I ask for advice on how to run a scenario like Alien in D&D, I am not asking how to play in the actual world of the alien franchise and emulate the first film. Responding with advice for a question that I didn’t ask is a bit rude all by itself. Often, it is then done with a condescending tone, dismissive assumptions about the asker, and other disrespectful behavior.

And, I'm unwilling to accept that a suggestion to try a not-D&D game built to do a specific thing that's being asked for is rude.

Are you willing to understand that the way you give advice can be condescending and dismissive, especially if your advice involves blatantly ignoring part of the request for advice?
Because I’ve seen plenty of folks ask for advice specifically on running a D&D adventure with certain elements, and someone condescend to them and tell them that they “only know D&D and should try other systems” (assuming someone’s knowledge level based on a preference is inherently rude), or rattle on dismissively about how D&D only does one thing, or otherwise talk down to the person asking for advice.

Yeah, I think the question is “do you want to play a game that feels like the movie ‘Aliens’ or do you want to play D&D with a bit of an ‘Aliens’ vibe?”

Those are two different things, really.

Well, it’s more “which story from the Aliens universe do you want to emulate?” But even the “game that feels like the first movie” can be done just fine in D&D. I’ve done similar things, and even had plans for an Alien inspired adventure.

Level 1 PCs take a job to explore and report on an abandoned giant castle on an earthmote, along with a team of NPCs. A black, green, or shadow, dragon decides to take up residence. NPCs start dying. Several die before the PCs get their first glimpse of dark scales on a sinuous body.

There is no way out. No way to signal the airship that brought them here. A month before the ship returns with supplies and to collect reports.

The PCs will have to formulate a plan, deal with sometimes uncooperative NPCs, and try to use the environment, which has a lot of moving parts and things they could use to improvise a trap or other “device”.

It’s an adventure that requires a DM willing to run with wild improvisation of character abilities, and I’d probably say no Wizard Cleric or Druid if I’m doing it as a one-shot rather than just the first story in a campaign. I might borrow from the actual Aliens RPG, but my desire would be to do this in Eberron, FR, or my or my buddy’s homebrew world, and I would rather run what will be an intense story that asks for solid improv and planning (plans are useless, planning is essential) in a system i know very well, and won’t have to ever reference a rule book to run.

 

[Arilyn]

The original post is asking how do you feel about using DnD for a variety of genres? It was not, can you help me use DnD to get X feel. So having people say, I don't feel DnD is a great fit for a lot of genres is not ignoring the poster's question. The poster, after all, states that he's very capable of kitbashing 5e. I thought this is an opinion thread?