D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[Ruin Explorer]

In fact, sometimes teaching a new board game sometimes takes longer than teaching a new TTRPG.

That's also my experience. Board games often rely on extremely specific rules understood in extremely specific way, and also often have unexpected or counter-intuitive rules which are necessary for them to play well. Certainly it's going to take a lot longer to explain the actual rules to many modern board games, including those weird specifics, than to get people going with with a new PtbA game or the like.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, that was one of the strengths of FASA Star Trek. As long as you had seen a few episodes of Star Trek you knew how to play. You could just talk like a Star Trek character and the game responded as you would expect.

 

[MGibster]

So when is suggesting that a person or group would be better off playing another game NOT hollow advice? What and where are the limits of hacking a given system, whether that's D&D or some other "bespoke game."

There's something else we should all consider. When someone opens a thread here it has the potential to be read by a great many people. So even if the advice isn't helpful to the person who started the thread it could be useful to someone else who is reading through the posts.

 

[Fanaelialae]

There's something else we should all consider. When someone opens a thread here it has the potential to be read by a great many people. So even if the advice isn't helpful to the person who started the thread it could be useful to someone else who is reading through the posts.

Another thing to consider is that when someone posts, that's a human being doing that. I realize that this is the interwebs, and it can have a dehumanizing effect.

However, a lot of the responses to these types of threads have a very condescending tone which could be paraphrased this way: "That game can't do what you want it to do and you're an idiot for trying. If you had even half a brain you'd just use X, which is the obviously superior choice."

If people would just phrase it with an ounce of tact, which really isn't that much effort when we consider the fact that we are conversing with a fellow human being, I don't think this thread would exist: "I can't see a good way to do what you want with that game, unfortunately. Perhaps X would be helpful to you?"

The latter at least attempts to be helpful to anyone reading the post, whereas the former drips with condescension and might just drive them away from the thread or game entirely. I myself have left ENWorld for lengths of time whenever I've tired of the frequent rudeness of (a small minority of) posters.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Another thing to consider is that when someone posts, that's a human being doing that. I realize that this is the interwebs, and it can have a dehumanizing effect.

However, a lot of the responses to these types of threads have a very condescending tone which could be paraphrased this way: "That game can't do what you want it to do and you're an idiot for trying. If you had even half a brain you'd just use X, which is the obviously superior choice."

If people would just phrase it with an ounce of tact, which really isn't that much effort when we consider the fact that we are conversing with a fellow human being, I don't think this thread would exist: "I can't see a good way to do what you want with that game, unfortunately. Perhaps X would be helpful to you?"

The latter at least attempts to be helpful to anyone reading the post, whereas the former drips with condescension and might just drive them away from the thread or game entirely. I myself have left ENWorld for lengths of time whenever I've tired of the frequent rudeness of (a small minority of) posters.

This is saying that since someone might read in a lot of unintended negativity, it is the responsibility of the poster to go the extra mike and be as gracious and polite as possible. Except, this doesn't actually work. If someone is alteady willing to read in negative intent because of the message, no amount of flowers around it will help. This doesn't mean being rude us okay, it is not, but the request for extra niceties doesn't acheive the goal. I've discussed this before, and trued to employ it, but the success rate was unchanged. This is because tge issue isn't the politeness of the comment, but that some people have strong emotional attachments to the topic.

 

[Fanaelialae]

This is saying that since someone might read in a lot of unintended negativity, it is the responsibility of the poster to go the extra mike and be as gracious and polite as possible. Except, this doesn't actually work. If someone is alteady willing to read in negative intent because of the message, no amount of flowers around it will help. This doesn't mean being rude us okay, it is not, but the request for extra niceties doesn't acheive the goal. I've discussed this before, and trued to employ it, but the success rate was unchanged. This is because tge issue isn't the politeness of the comment, but that some people have strong emotional attachments to the topic.

Yes, it's also up to the reader to give the same benefit of the doubt to the poster (who is also a human being), rather than interpreting the post in the most negative way possible. That does not, however, excuse rudeness. And I do honestly believe that taking a moment to consider whether what you've written could be read as condescending or passive-aggressive is worthwhile. I've rewritten plenty of posts before submitting because I've realized it was not very polite.

I think the possibility that a post could still be interpreted negatively is a not good excuse not to make at least a minimal effort to not be rude.

 

[Ovinomancer]

That, in turn, depends on what you want from playing Aliens as a table top RPG. I don’t know the system, but my inclination if I didn’t want to buy a new RPG, would be to figure out xenomorphs as a sort of D&D creature with abilities that make it hard to see coming, potentially hurt you when you manage to hurt it, and make it fast and also terrifying (like, port dragonfear), and then explore mechanics that help me do whatever else I want from the experience.

What I wouldn’t do try to model the specific play experience of another game. If I end up doing so, cool, but that is never the goal. The goal is to make my game accomplish the play experience goals of whatever concept is being used.

The goal here, though, isn't to recreate the Aliens genre, but to add an Aliens veneer to the D&D genre. Your solution here is to play to these D&D genre conventions. You've made the Alien something that can be spottedd, fought, and killed per the usual D&D conventions. It's D&D in space, with an Alien flavor.

And there is nothing wrong with that at all. However, if someone asks how to do Aliens, that's a different question than how can I do D&D with Aliens. Hence, you'll get answers like , "D&D doesn't do Aliens well, try the Aliens RPG." This is an honest and valid answer to the former question. The problem is that a lot of people are actually asking the latter question, maybe because they live D&Disms, or don't want to learn a bew system, or don't understand that different games can work very differently from D&D (obviously not all do) and so can provide very different experiences. All are valid reasons, alongside many more, but this is really a matter of hidden assumptions in the questions running into people that aren't making those assumptions.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Yes, it's also up to the reader to give the same benefit of the doubt to the poster (who is also a human being), rather than interpreting the post in the most negative way possible. That does not, however, excuse rudeness. And I do honestly believe that taking a moment to consider whether what you've written could be read as condescending or passive-aggressive is worthwhile. I've rewritten plenty of posts before submitting because I've realized it was not very polite.

I think the possibility that a post could still be interpreted negatively is a not good excuse not to make at least a minimal effort to not be rude.

And, I'm unwilling to accept that a suggestion to try a not-D&D game built to do a specific thing that's being asked for is rude. This is running into the assumption that D&D is a thing that can be insulted or demeaned. That's silly, but a lot of people seem to put a lot of emotional investment into it so that any suggestion it is not always good is taken as a personal attack. Which is why no amount of extra niceness makes a difference.

For truly rude posts, you should report them.

 

[jmartkdr2]

The goal here, though, isn't to recreate the Aliens genre, but to add an Aliens veneer to the D&D genre. Your solution here is to play to these D&D genre conventions. You've made the Alien something that can be spottedd, fought, and killed per the usual D&D conventions. It's D&D in space, with an Alien flavor.

And there is nothing wrong with that at all. However, if someone asks how to do Aliens, that's a different question than how can I do D&D with Aliens. Hence, you'll get answers like , "D&D doesn't do Aliens well, try the Aliens RPG." This is an honest and valid answer to the former question. The problem is that a lot of people are actually asking the latter question, maybe because they live D&Disms, or don't want to learn a bew system, or don't understand that different games can work very differently from D&D (obviously not all do) and so can provide very different experiences. All are valid reasons, alongside many more, but this is really a matter of hidden assumptions in the questions running into people that aren't making those assumptions.

I feel like there's a great food analogy in here. Like, the difference between making really good sauce for spaghetti and a recipe for chicken parm. Asking about marinara might get you either answer.

That's definitely not a great analogy.

 

[hawkeyefan]

That, in turn, depends on what you want from playing Aliens as a table top RPG. I don’t know the system, but my inclination if I didn’t want to buy a new RPG, would be to figure out xenomorphs as a sort of D&D creature with abilities that make it hard to see coming, potentially hurt you when you manage to hurt it, and make it fast and also terrifying (like, port dragonfear), and then explore mechanics that help me do whatever else I want from the experience.

What I wouldn’t do try to model the specific play experience of another game. If I end up doing so, cool, but that is never the goal. The goal is to make my game accomplish the play experience goals of whatever concept is being used.

Yeah, I think the question is “do you want to play a game that feels like the movie ‘Aliens’ or do you want to play D&D with a bit of an ‘Aliens’ vibe?”

Those are two different things, really.