D&D 5E Which Classic Settings do you think WotC will publish?

[Urriak Uruk]

I am not up on all the current news, so I might be incorrect, but I remember late last year (Sept 2020) that Ray Winninger said "...there are three of the old settings that we're working on right now that you'll be seeing in the next year or two, including some that the fans have been asking for a very long time."

Has it been confirmed anywhere that the form those "settings" will take be a published setting book? Might they take the form of Dragonlance novels, or a new Mystara-based side-scrolling video game, or some other media?

Or is that just part of the speculating fun everyone is having?

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Thinking about that tweet the exciting response for next post VRGtR setting would have been The Subclass options 5, aka the Drake/Dragon themed subclasses survey results would have been in.

Oh and would you look there is MtG Set with a major Dragon theme coming up, including not one, but at least 2 Dragon Gods in it that play into the flavour of those subclasses.

 

[Coroc]

I voted as follows:

Planescape/Spelljammer hybrid - This is like, a no-brainer, and would be pretty easy to make great frankly, but I see one problem with it - it's too good of an idea for a corporation like WotC. What do I mean by that? Fans of various shows, movie series, games, etc. often come up with theories, sometimes quite elaborate theories, as to what they're going to do next. Long experience dictates though, that if an idea makes too much sense, is too cool, just adds up a little bit too well, it's almost certainly wrong, because the people involved have probably thought about it significantly longer, harder, and with more clarity than the people at the corporation will have. This isn't hindsight stuff I'm talking about either, it's anticipation. Planescape/Spelljammer hybrid is such a basically good idea that it sets of the "makes too much sense" alarms in my head. Generally the smaller the company making a thing, the more chance a really good idea like this is going to happen, whereas the larger the company, and the more money involved, the more likely they half-arsed the basic idea, because they had to get working on all the production elements.

So I think that it would obviously be a great idea, but we may well actually just see a Planescape or Spelljammer reboot that isn't a hybrid, and maybe isn't very exciting at all (esp. if they do something dim and go with "Planescape as Monte Cook - that criminal - left it" < loud sounds of axe meeting grindstone >). That said over a year ago DiTerlizzi seemed to be working on PS stuff so who knows.

Forgotten Realms - Faerun only - I wouldn't buy it, but an awful lot of people would, and I'd be surprised if we didn't see an FR book with a lot more coverage than The Sword Coast in the next three-four years.

Dark Sun - I think there's zero question that they want to do Dark Sun given the various references, mentions, and so on. It's one of the previous-edition settings with the most name recognition, especially from younger fans, weirdly (possibly because it was also a 4E setting but I think there's a bit more going on), it's a setting different to what they've done before, and the ecological elements and the fact that the players may be fighting for a very literal kind of justice against oppressive rulers make it feel perhaps even more relevant now than it was in the 1990s. I'd expect significant changes because fundamentally 5E's approach to magic is different to 2E, and WotC completely messed up their work on Psionics by applying irrational acceptance standards to them.

I know a lot of people are expecting Dragonlance because there's a Dragonlance novel or novel series coming up but historically neither TSR nor WotC have consistently matched DL novel releases with actual RPG products. Especially as one suspects the core audience for DL novels is now, well, mid-40s and up in age, so one of the smallest segments of the D&D audience. If you look on places where fantasy novels are discussed, I think you'll find very few people under 40 have read the DL novels, and even smaller proportion of those hold a positive opinion rather than "Yeah I read them when I was a kid then I tried re-reading them more recently and I didn't enjoy them much". Plus they're super-generic fantasy with a ton of problematic elements and WotC tried to not publish the most recent one! So I wouldn't be shocked if DL was one of the upcoming classic settings, but I would be at least a little bit surprised.

As for Greyhawk, I'm really not seeing it. I've been playing D&D since 1989. During that time there's been what, one crummy GH gazeteer for 3E, despite 3E being explicitly GH-as-default?

Looking it up I see there technically some adventures for GH and "City of GH" module released in 1989, then a couple of failed attempts to make GH happen in the early '90s (involving adventures again), before it got totally cancelled in 1994. Then WotC tried to make GH happen again in late 2E in 1998, with small player's guide and "The adventure begins", a small setting-guide which hilariously I've never even heard of seen before (so it clearly wasn't making it to the various FLGSes I visited at the time).

Then 3E had Living GH, via RPGA, but that seems to have reached a fairly tiny (if extremely dedicated) audience estimated by RPGA at 10k people (players and DMs), and despite all the work and literally hundreds of adventures, it's all considered non-canon by WotC. Since then we've had nothing but a couple of adventures where it's the default setting.

So I'm mystified as to who they'd be aiming at with a GH revival. I mean, I could see it happening - we've three basically-irrational attempts to resurrect GH, in the early 1990s, in 1998, and in 2000. None of those made any sense, none of them were successful, but it didn't stop people from trying repeatedly. Could that happen again? Even in the much-more-rational WotC of 2021 and onwards? I think it could. Ray Winninger worked at TSR in the 1980s, he's certainly old enough that he could have some serious nostalgia for GH (though judging from his own RPG output, I'd be slightly surprised if he did). It's particularly odd as an idea because the sort of people I could see it appealing to are extremely well-catered to by pretty high-quality and prolific RPGs like DCC and other OSR stuff. I mean, the FR has been steadily popular for 30-odd years at this point, and they've felt no reason to go beyond SCAG and various adventures, so it's particularly hard to see why they'd go "Hey this setting was popular like 35 years ago, let's make it happen again!". I could see a "maximum nostalgia" product for D&D's 50th I guess. They certainly did nostalgia stuff with GH adventures for the 25th (which was also WotC). But looking at the irrational attempts to make it happen, you never know...

Really liked your analysis and agree on it except for one point, and although i am a big fan of that setting i do not feel bad about that i think that they will not do DS.
Why?
For DS i think the The people who are fans split up between 40 + year olds playing the original in the 90s (and maybe did a bit of it in 3e or 4e but only a few) and let us say people who knew the 4e version mainly. So that splits up the possible customers in two groups whose expectation is different on how 5e should resolve this. Add on top the ultra pc-cleaneliness required by todays zeitgeist and you see that DS 5e by Wotc could only be a bland shadow of what 2e and even 4e version were. It would be DS by name only.
The many psionicist models out of which only UA3 was a real Psionicist char, all this hodgy podgy psi as a feat halfclass added to any class (most of them not belonging into DS), the complaints of younger folks on topics like slavery etc. show that they will not have an easy solution which is market conform.
With DL i think they would love to do it because it is really flashy could make a great movie if done right with todays CGI possibilities, but it might be that the legal brand topics are not quite resolved on this setting.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I just had a weird idea, what if instead of Planesjammer, we get The Forgotten Planesjammers. I mean for several editions now all of the Spelljammer and Planescape type material has been appearing in FR books or general books with FR heavy links.

The 3 Settings have had major crossover source books and novels. They could merge them into one setting. One Setting to rule them all, one setting to find them, One setting to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them; In the Land of Elminster where the weave lies.

 

[Mercurius]

They already have a book that ties all the 5E Adventure locations together, and it is a big seller. I'm not saying you need to like SCAG, but it serves the role of a FR Setting book as far as WotC is concerned. Why would they confuse the matter if they already have a book that is selling? SCAG has been in print for nearly six years: that's longer than any other WorC Edition of the game, let alone a specific book, and it still sells. And any book would have to compete with FR Wikia.

I'm not sure why you're so opposed to the idea, at least as far as it making sense - not whether or not you personally want it. I mean, Henadic puts it well:

We do need a Forgotten Realms Campaign Book, because outside of the Swordcoast, nothing is properly supported and waiting to do each region in turn at the current rate of once outside of the Swordcoast every 5 years are so will have us all dust and bones before they are done.

No your right now is the time to do it, two AAA games this year set in FR, MtG AFR set, the FR movie is being shot, the moment is swimming in synergies. FR's fan base is going to get bigger and now is the time to strike.

So one of this years next three major releases or one early next year will be FR Setting Book. They even straight up say its their most popular setting book so not doing it is literally leaving money on the table and Hasbro is not going to let that continue forever.

And I know someone will say we are getting a Draconomicon, while Forgetting that the original Draconomicon was a straight up Forgotten Realms book filled with FR Lore.

I don't think you're right that one of the next three major releases with be an FR setting book, although it wouldn't totally surprise me. But I agree that they really should do one at some point.

I didn't see this one. So they're actively working on two others, but may have others in their long-term plans.

"Actively" would probably mean it is going to come out within the next year or two (by 2022, maybe 2023). So it may be that we don't see another this year, but see one in each of 2022 and 2023, and that they plan on covering one per year, at least until they get through most of the obvious ones (Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Planescape, Forgotten Realms) and then re-assess for the "second tier" (Spelljammer, Greyhawk, Mystara).

 

[darjr]

What if the mists are the new ether and astral planes?

 

[Mecheon]

I'm still on the ol' Spelljammer/Planescape/Dark Sun train, and reckon we'll see another delve into Faerun for some sort of adventure

I'm still up in the air with ol' Dragonlance as its likely there'll be something but, well, my opinions on Dragonlance are well known at this point and I may be assuming its potentially going to crash and burn

I'd really like Council of Wyrms but, unfortunately am a realist. Desspite the fact it'd be fun.

 

[Mercurius]

I voted as follows:

Planescape/Spelljammer hybrid - This is like, a no-brainer, and would be pretty easy to make great frankly, but I see one problem with it - it's too good of an idea for a corporation like WotC. What do I mean by that? Fans of various shows, movie series, games, etc. often come up with theories, sometimes quite elaborate theories, as to what they're going to do next. Long experience dictates though, that if an idea makes too much sense, is too cool, just adds up a little bit too well, it's almost certainly wrong, because the people involved have probably thought about it significantly longer, harder, and with more clarity than the people at the corporation will have. This isn't hindsight stuff I'm talking about either, it's anticipation. Planescape/Spelljammer hybrid is such a basically good idea that it sets of the "makes too much sense" alarms in my head. Generally the smaller the company making a thing, the more chance a really good idea like this is going to happen, whereas the larger the company, and the more money involved, the more likely they half-arsed the basic idea, because they had to get working on all the production elements.

So I think that it would obviously be a great idea, but we may well actually just see a Planescape or Spelljammer reboot that isn't a hybrid, and maybe isn't very exciting at all (esp. if they do something dim and go with "Planescape as Monte Cook - that criminal - left it" < loud sounds of axe meeting grindstone >). That said over a year ago DiTerlizzi seemed to be working on PS stuff so who knows.

Forgotten Realms - Faerun only - I wouldn't buy it, but an awful lot of people would, and I'd be surprised if we didn't see an FR book with a lot more coverage than The Sword Coast in the next three-four years.

Dark Sun - I think there's zero question that they want to do Dark Sun given the various references, mentions, and so on. It's one of the previous-edition settings with the most name recognition, especially from younger fans, weirdly (possibly because it was also a 4E setting but I think there's a bit more going on), it's a setting different to what they've done before, and the ecological elements and the fact that the players may be fighting for a very literal kind of justice against oppressive rulers make it feel perhaps even more relevant now than it was in the 1990s. I'd expect significant changes because fundamentally 5E's approach to magic is different to 2E, and WotC completely messed up their work on Psionics by applying irrational acceptance standards to them.

I know a lot of people are expecting Dragonlance because there's a Dragonlance novel or novel series coming up but historically neither TSR nor WotC have consistently matched DL novel releases with actual RPG products. Especially as one suspects the core audience for DL novels is now, well, mid-40s and up in age, so one of the smallest segments of the D&D audience. If you look on places where fantasy novels are discussed, I think you'll find very few people under 40 have read the DL novels, and even smaller proportion of those hold a positive opinion rather than "Yeah I read them when I was a kid then I tried re-reading them more recently and I didn't enjoy them much". Plus they're super-generic fantasy with a ton of problematic elements and WotC tried to not publish the most recent one! So I wouldn't be shocked if DL was one of the upcoming classic settings, but I would be at least a little bit surprised.

As for Greyhawk, I'm really not seeing it. I've been playing D&D since 1989. During that time there's been what, one crummy GH gazeteer for 3E, despite 3E being explicitly GH-as-default?

Looking it up I see there technically some adventures for GH and "City of GH" module released in 1989, then a couple of failed attempts to make GH happen in the early '90s (involving adventures again), before it got totally cancelled in 1994. Then WotC tried to make GH happen again in late 2E in 1998, with small player's guide and "The adventure begins", a small setting-guide which hilariously I've never even heard of seen before (so it clearly wasn't making it to the various FLGSes I visited at the time).

Then 3E had Living GH, via RPGA, but that seems to have reached a fairly tiny (if extremely dedicated) audience estimated by RPGA at 10k people (players and DMs), and despite all the work and literally hundreds of adventures, it's all considered non-canon by WotC. Since then we've had nothing but a couple of adventures where it's the default setting.

So I'm mystified as to who they'd be aiming at with a GH revival. I mean, I could see it happening - we've three basically-irrational attempts to resurrect GH, in the early 1990s, in 1998, and in 2000. None of those made any sense, none of them were successful, but it didn't stop people from trying repeatedly. Could that happen again? Even in the much-more-rational WotC of 2021 and onwards? I think it could. Ray Winninger worked at TSR in the 1980s, he's certainly old enough that he could have some serious nostalgia for GH (though judging from his own RPG output, I'd be slightly surprised if he did). It's particularly odd as an idea because the sort of people I could see it appealing to are extremely well-catered to by pretty high-quality and prolific RPGs like DCC and other OSR stuff. I mean, the FR has been steadily popular for 30-odd years at this point, and they've felt no reason to go beyond SCAG and various adventures, so it's particularly hard to see why they'd go "Hey this setting was popular like 35 years ago, let's make it happen again!". I could see a "maximum nostalgia" product for D&D's 50th I guess. They certainly did nostalgia stuff with GH adventures for the 25th (which was also WotC). But looking at the irrational attempts to make it happen, you never know...

Good stuff, RE. You really tend to make a lot of sense, at least sometimes .

I think you make a good point re: PS/SJ, but I'm going to be willfully optimistic and say that WotC will (hopefully) bypass any reticence and go in on it. I mean, they already kind of did it with 4E, with the Astral Sea.

That said, if and when they do the planes, I think they need to approach it a bit differently than the other settings - not just a one-and-done, but a "Year of the Planes." A dedicated setting/adventure hybrid book to Sigil and the Outlands; a Manual of the Planes book; and a big story arc involving githyanki trying to conquer everything involving all kinds of spelljammer battles (or some such).

Alternately they can split up PS and SJ and do two books for PS (one setting/rules, the other adventure) and one book for SJ, which includes ways to integrate it with PS and Sigil.

I agree re: Dark Sun - it brings a lot to the table that isn't already on there, as I've been saying. It is kind of like the pecan pie of Thanksgiving dinner: not everyone likes it, but it stands out as relatively unique and different, and those that like it, love it.

You express my ambivalence about whether or not they'll do DL and GH. I go back and forth about DL. On one hand, I hear everything you're saying. On the other, the Chronicles are probably the most successful big D&D story, unless you count the various adventures of Super Drow, and I think would translate well to any era, given the scope, characters, and "vanilla but with a touch of cardamon" nature of the setting.

Another possibility with GH is that they fold it into a commemorative 50th anniversary product, something similar in size and scope to Art and Arcana, but focused on the origins and history of D&D, with an overview of the various worlds, and an in-depth look into Greyhawk and Blackmoor as the D&D ur-settings. Basically a 50 Years of Dungeons & Dragons book.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

If I'm right about The Forgotten Planesjammers, the Commander of the Planar Portals Commander Deck could be The Lady of Pain herself, I mean Sigil is the centre of the Planes and its the City of Portals. Maybe there will even be Nautiliod/Spelljammer cards.

 

[Mercurius]

If I'm right about The Forgotten Planesjammers, the Commander of the Planar Portals Commander Deck could be The Lady of Pain herself, I mean Sigil is the centre of the Planes and its the City of Portals. Maybe there will even be Nautiliod/Spelljammer cards.

For a moment I read this as "Nautiloid Spermjammer cards."