Remathilis
Legend
I believe one of the Core design principles of 5e is "Specific Trumps General". This is as true of lore as is it of mechanics.
D&D General Do you care about lore?
Scott Christian
Hero
So the game equals rules, and lore is not attached, then there are certainly not nearly enough rules to cover the bases. I mean, where are the rules that cover nuclear explosions? How much damage does it do? What happens when I walk through fallout?
Lore is distinctly tied to the rules. It's tied to the weapon list. It is tied to magic items. It is tied to hit points. It is tied to feats. It is tied to magic. It is tied armor. It is tied to the rules on travel. It is tied to conditions. It is tied to just about everything.
Scribe
Legend
YES.
The biggest issue with Battletech, was the poor quality control between the miniatures. I love that game, loved that setting (till they blew it up by progressing the timeline and doing a lot of weird stuff....) but if the miniatures had been better, I think it would have taken off.
The kickstarter looked pretty good recently.
Henadic Theologian
Legend
Yes lore is very important.
Your bringing up nuclear explosions strongly suggests that the definition you are using for "lore" here is not what that word means. You seem to be talking about "design philosophy" which is an entirely different thing.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Level of simulation is a completely different dial. Tic-tac-toe is a game with only rules, no lore, but it's not required to simulate nuclear explosions. (Well, except when a kid figures out that the only square that matters is the central one, and adults have just been humoring them all along.)
Also, a nuclear explosion is probably all your dice in your bag, split between fire and radiant damage and then a necrotic after effect for radiant damage.
Mind of tempest
(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
atomic damage would be better, why not add a whole damage type?
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
I care for it very much. I may ignore portions and change other portions, but it provides me a strong basis to go from. Another reason is that I simply don't have the time to come up with all that lore on my own. I'm too busy to do that and create adventures.
DrunkonDuty
he/him
I quite enjoy reading lore. Even for games or settings I have no intention of playing. How much official game lore makes it into my games depends entirely on how I feel about the specific bits of lore and the style of game I'm going for. I don't treat lore as some sacred cow that must stand no matter what. All bets are off once the PCs encounter the lore; by definition they're supposed to be changing it. Or at least trying to.
I have no problem with major changes (be it a retcon or a the lore going forward as time passes) to a setting's lore IF it's done well. A good example of how NOT to do it is Legend of the Five Rings leaving it's RPG lore to be decided by the results of their card game tournaments. This led to, among other things, the Crab Clan being fooled into allying with the Shadowlands. For those not across L5R lore: as it stood (and theoretically still stands) this is impossible.
As to the "what's lore, what's game mechanics" side of the thread...
Most games have lore baked into their rules sets. I'd say anything except the most generic rules sets must have at least some lore written into them. I'd say that in DND across the editions it's a fairly light baking in. Colour coded dragons and infinitely regenerating trolls and spell names can all be changed without any serious change to the game. Even changing the source of clerical magic wouldn't necessarily change the game play.
Towards the other end of the spectrum games like Exalted or Numenera or Call of Cthulu have systems especially designed to give a specific feeling of play. It would be difficult (maybe impossible) to divorce the rules sets entirely from the setting. Exalted has spells, charms, powers, and other stuff (so much stuff, my head just started spinning about half way through the rule book and I had to put it down and go have a little rest) that are all intimately tied to the lore. How much of this can you drop and still call your game Exalted? I dunno, but I think most of it's required. (Full disclosure, I've never managed to play Exalted so I'm guessing here.)
Call of Cthulu absolutely has to have a system to represent ploughing through musty tomes and learning things Humanity Was Not Meant To Know. You could change the mechanics from (is it still the percentile skill system?) to some different game mechanic, but you have to have something to do this or the game loses a central piece of the experience.
Don't forget, tic-tac-toe can also be used to avert nuclear apocalypses.
I have no problem with major changes (be it a retcon or a the lore going forward as time passes) to a setting's lore IF it's done well. A good example of how NOT to do it is Legend of the Five Rings leaving it's RPG lore to be decided by the results of their card game tournaments. This led to, among other things, the Crab Clan being fooled into allying with the Shadowlands. For those not across L5R lore: as it stood (and theoretically still stands) this is impossible.
As to the "what's lore, what's game mechanics" side of the thread...
Most games have lore baked into their rules sets. I'd say anything except the most generic rules sets must have at least some lore written into them. I'd say that in DND across the editions it's a fairly light baking in. Colour coded dragons and infinitely regenerating trolls and spell names can all be changed without any serious change to the game. Even changing the source of clerical magic wouldn't necessarily change the game play.
Towards the other end of the spectrum games like Exalted or Numenera or Call of Cthulu have systems especially designed to give a specific feeling of play. It would be difficult (maybe impossible) to divorce the rules sets entirely from the setting. Exalted has spells, charms, powers, and other stuff (so much stuff, my head just started spinning about half way through the rule book and I had to put it down and go have a little rest) that are all intimately tied to the lore. How much of this can you drop and still call your game Exalted? I dunno, but I think most of it's required. (Full disclosure, I've never managed to play Exalted so I'm guessing here.)
Call of Cthulu absolutely has to have a system to represent ploughing through musty tomes and learning things Humanity Was Not Meant To Know. You could change the mechanics from (is it still the percentile skill system?) to some different game mechanic, but you have to have something to do this or the game loses a central piece of the experience.
Don't forget, tic-tac-toe can also be used to avert nuclear apocalypses.
Scott Christian
Hero
I disagree.
Here is lore: a body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group. Consistent lore is the reason D&D has grown in popularity. Lore is a cleric uses magic through divinity. Wizards can use transmutation. Specific monsters utilize specific traits. The level of technology. The cultures and traditions and appearance and abilities of various races. These are all tied to lore.
Put it this way: Lore is distinctly tied to setting (time and place). It is distinctly tied to inhabitants. Those two things, setting and inhabitants, help create a ruleset. The two are tied together.
Design Philosophy, while it could be tied to lore, is comprised of the elements and devices used to run the game. Do you want to use have wider variability? Use a d100. Do you want controlled outcomes? Use a d4. Do you want long, more "fantasy real" combats? Institute the design of combat math. Do you want short combats? Institute the philosophy of zero combat math. That is design philosophy, and it can adhere (and in my opinion) should attach itself to lore. But it doesn't always do so. And that is fine - to each his own.
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