D&D 5E Martials v Casters...I still don't *get* it.

[Sithlord]

I actually played with a player who has done so, which is why I mention it from time-to-time.

They were actually a valor bard but wanted the flavor to not be magic. The things that were changed was basically that his focus was instead a "component pouch" which had a couple of practical stuff in it. For instance, "healing word" was "Quick-acting blood clogger (or something idk exactly)" and they would splash the solution on the wound up to 60ft.

It was odd and the fact healing word doesn't naturally have a spell component makes it a little dissonant, but I don't think it really bothered him. Perhaps he was proud of his work anyways, despite the minor inconsistencies.

How do those abilities work in antimagic fields or with counterspell and dispel magic? That sounds like more than a reskin if it do changes the mechanics that much. I like the idea, was there something else they added to offset this?

 

[DnD Warlord]

I’m sorry no. It was losing to pathfinder at one point. The PHB sells dropped real low in a short period of time. And you don’t create a new concept edition a few short years into its cycles if sales are great. Hey out 4E books are selling like hot cakes let’s scrap this system and create a new game called 5E that is a 180 and very little like our current game. Yup that’s a business plan. And there are many many elements of 4E I liked. But it was a commercial failure. And boy did I love the gamma world setting with 4E rules.

if it was such a success the difference between 4E and 5E would have been like the difference between 1E and 2E

You are wrong. The fall off of 4e was vocal jerks saying bad things that were not true mixed with it being the only edition to compete with an ongoing Primus edition... and there is 0 proof pathfinder ever outsold 4e just that it divide the fan base and WoTC wanted to bring everyone back so they made a worse edition as a medium ground.

 

[Sithlord]

You are wrong. The fall off of 4e was vocal jerks saying bad things that were not true mixed with it being the only edition to compete with an ongoing Primus edition... and there is 0 proof pathfinder ever outsold 4e just that it divide the fan base and WoTC wanted to bring everyone back so they made a worse edition as a medium ground.

okay. I concede that is what happened. Wotc scrapped the greatest rpg rule set ever made by d&d and did a 180 and stopped selling those awesome great selling books because of a few vocal fans. Yup. That is what happened. You are so right. I bow to your supremacy.

 

[Quickleaf]

For those interested in assisting me create an impartial high-level mini-adventure to demonstrate a typical high-level campaign, this is the link.

Warning! If you'd rather be a participant, you shouldn't look into the thread.

Hey Asisreo! Are you looking for players? And how are you planning on running the game (PbP, VTT, or something else)?

I've only DMed up to 13th level, and played in a 17th level one-shot, but I also am very curious about what play at the upper extents of the level range looks like.

 

[DnD Warlord]

okay. I concede that is what happened. Wotc scrapped the greatest rpg rule set ever made by d&d and did a 180 and stopped selling those awesome great selling books because of a few vocal fans. Yup. That is what happened. You are so right. I bow to your supremacy.

As opposed to you that swears the 2nd best selling edition of all time flopped because he said so

 

[Asisreo]

How do those abilities work in antimagic fields or with counterspell and dispel magic? That sounds like more than a reskin if it do changes the mechanics that much. I like the idea, was there something else they added to offset this?

I don't think there was ever a time the DM had casted dispel magic, counterspell, or antimagic field. So it didn't pop up.

My instinct would be he'd either rule that the effect of the weave was still able to disrupt his technique or he'd just be able to bypass it. More than likely, though, he'd just avoid making that kind of ruling for the player's sake.

 

[Asisreo]

Hey Asisreo! Are you looking for players? And how are you planning on running the game (PbP, VTT, or something else)?

I've only DMed up to 13th level, and played in a 17th level one-shot, but I also am very curious about what play at the upper extents of the level range looks like.

My initial thought was PbP though I've been flirting with the idea of VTT in my mind especially because the rolls can be completely impartial.

But you are absolutely welcome to play once everything is finalized.

 

[Sithlord]

As opposed to you that swears the 2nd best selling edition of all time flopped because he said so

I think the others were Just at the end of there life cycle. Except becmi. They just wanted to considate and not have 2 branches competing. And some of the later adventures for becmi weren’t so good. And even though b/x and becmi were great. 36 levels was really was more than most people ever used. We can’t even get level 15-20 adventures now. Imagine trying to get levels 25-36. But b/x was still very heavily played when mystara was merged into 2E. The adventures were starting to become light, silly, humorous in dungeon magazine which did annoy diehard becmi fans that loved the war engine or siege engine and kingdom building rules. Thank god for kingmaker and ultimate kingdom. I never thought I would ecer see rules for mass warfare and kingdoms that I would enjoy again. And they are easy to convert to 5E. I hope to use them again soon.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Then call it something different. Let us have our wizard with sword but not spells

how is a warrior with manoeuvres a wizard? unless they seem to spell slot like.
also, why go back to the just run up and hit it warrior instead?

 

[ph0rk]

I see more People playing champions than hex blades. They are not going to change a class in the PHB after 7 years.

Oh, sure, and I don't expect them to (they've certainly done basically nothing for the PHB Ranger Beastmaster, despite many UAs). I don't think they'd have even touched the Bladesinger but for the desire to fix the racial restriction.

Balance is loose enough and death is hard enough that it doesn't matter that much - and people make bad tactical decisions at tables all the time (sometime because it is fun). But if the argument is the champion gains effectiveness in trade for its relative simplicity, I don't think that's true (it certainly isn't relative to other fighters, and the hexblade is competitive with them). Even the Samurai (which is rather simple) has better tools (for employing GWM and/or SS particularly).

But, I'm not terribly interested in the merits or failings of the champion because I'd never play one. but for a three level dip perhaps. It's a distraction from the larger discussion, spurred by someone else entirely implying the the champ was, somehow, uniquely suited to protect and support teammates.

Specifically, this:

Is a champion fighter flashy? No. In most cases over the long haul they hold their own, but it's not just damage or utility. It's helping the other team members stay alive, contributing a solid amount of damage over the long haul and so on

I mean, you could say the same about an archetype-less fighter, or a Warrior sidekick.