D&D 5E Public Brainstorming a public High-Level Mini-Adventure

[Asisreo]

So, if you're unaware, this is branching off of a thread about an infamous debate about Martials v Casters.
I had first proposed a very small combat challenge within the thread to demonstrate how much a caster might have difficulty even in their ideal combat environments. Of course, some people felt this scenario was too unrealistic because there was a lack of context and they disagreed with the extent in which I removed any DM assistance in this encounter, including material components.

So, I've decided to go a different direction and create a whole mini-adventure surrounding this high-level debacle.

Warning! Don't read if you'd like to participate in having the mini-adventure ran for you!​

All else are welcome to help me brainstorm a truly representative but impartial high-level adventure.

What was agreed was that there would be:​

• 4-player level-20 party
  • Cleric (purely NPC)
  • Rogue (purely NPC)
  • Fighter (Playable)
  • Wizard (Playable)
  • You can choose either the Wizard or Fighter as a playable class with any combination of Race, Background, Subclass (nonmagic for Fighter), or spells/maneuvers
• 10 years of downtime
• Several rolls on the Random Treasure Tables distributed according to the DMG.
  • 7 Tier-1 rolls
  • 8 Tier-2 rolls
  • 12 Tier-3 rolls
  • 8 Tier-4 rolls
• Your character can do any RAW thing within a day during downtime (like casting spells) and any of the Downtime Activities in the PHB and DMG except training to gain a level.
• You are free to purchase anything you like unless it must be specifically manufactured.
  • Examples include armor, art pieces, and crowns
  • You must either take your specific time to craft these items or hire a specialist to craft it for you.

The Adventure will have:​

• A lair which the players must enter
• A small series of exploration and social encounters
  • This includes Parleys, Investigations, Traps, and Hazards
• A single encounter worth a little less than the entire adventure day budget.
  • This encounter will have a little under 160,000 adjusted exp.
  • This encounter will include multiple unique monsters.
• None of the challenges will be a targeted or specifically tailored experience.
  • No antimagic fields
  • No counterspell chains on the monsters
  • Wards will not be stacked on top of each other
  • No challenge that requires only one spell/feature solution

This experience isn't for a selfish feeling of validation, but its to be thorough within the community about a problem that is said to extend not only through editions but even throughout the entire TTRPG fantasy genre.

Such a widespread problem deserves at least a little analytical evaluation to give a more tangible understanding of this issue.

That said, is this fair so far?

 

[Iry]

10 years of downtime

This... could be an issue. Does the Fighter have a way to pay the Wizard or Cleric to do things like open portals to the Elemental Plane of Earth, or request favors of genies?

 

[MichaelSomething]

Ohh, have the players inspect the paperwork of people trying to enter a restricted area!!!

 

[Asisreo]

This... could be an issue. Does the Fighter have a way to pay the Wizard or Cleric to do things like open portals to the Elemental Plane of Earth, or request favors of genies?

Do you think this would be fair and not too "DM fiat?"

How about this instead? If the Fighter desires to find a portal to an interplanar location, they must either move through a well-known portal to the Ethereal Plane that occurs during foggy weather (once every two months) or they could take one month of Research requiring a DC 15 Investigation or Persuasion check at the end to find a portal that will take them to the plane they want to be at.

I believe this is a more "RAW" way to handle that and its something I do often myself.

 

[Asisreo]

So, I've mulled over an Introduction and I want to know the general opinion. Its fairly basic, but I put just a little flair of color anyways.

I'll also be drawing a map of the world that gives an idea of the scale of the Material Plane.

Introduction​

Background​

Your impressive exploits are known all throughout the world. Facing the many perils of the world of Gia, your renown as the material plane's champions is uncontested.

In this world, there are 3 continents: Zelidan, Ingru, and the Gartlands. Zelidan consists of 2 large countries which are peaceful with each other politically, but the people are becoming more paranoid of the other country. These two countries are The Beltian Empire and The Republic of Xharna. Beltia has a Emperor and several lords that preside over the smaller lands. The Republic of Xharna is governed by counsel.

Ingru is a continent of smaller states with a loosely centralized union in the form of the Ingru Alliance. Trade and Commerce between these states, as well as defense resources, are allocated through this alliance. This balance keeps any one state from violently overstepping another. It has been this way for 200 years.

The Gartlands are a dangerous, largely unexplored continent. Some of the strongest creatures roam this land and tribes of evil-worshipping humanoids prey on those that explore haphazardly.

Call to Action​

Returning from your most recent expedition, you take 10 years of downtime and rest. But this rest is briefly interrupted by a dream. Strada, goddess of protection, rouses you from your dreams with a message:

"A struggle of the forces of order and chaos which cycles every eon has arrived once more. This struggle leads to the side victorious ruling over the planes for 100-years. If Order wins, free-will can no longer exist for those 100-years. All intelligent creatures will become robots of productivity. If Chaos wins, the shackles of the planes will be unleashed for 100-years, permitting creatures like demons and abberations to freely inhabit the Material Plane and more.

However, I forsee the disturbance of this cycle. For each force is equally balanced this time, and the struggle could lead to the extinction of all intelligent beings. You, champions of the material plane, must tip the scale in one side's favor.

Defeat one of the generals of either Chaos or Order and save the world! The general of Chaos is found in Limbo, residing in his fortress of the Flame, Wind, Water, and Stone. The general of Order is found in Mechanus, within his Crystal Sanctum.

Go, champions of the material, and defend the multiverse!"

How does this introduction sound?

 

[Asisreo]

Adding onto the theme of choice, I'll have 2 different combat encounters based on which general the party chooses to weaken.

The Chaos side will have an Adult Silver Shadow Dragon (Chaotic Good), Balor, Purple Worm, and a Storm Giant.

The Order side will have a Solar, Pit Fiend, Gynosphinx, and a Beholder

 

[Flamestrike]

A single combat encounter? Youre cramming an entires days XP into one encounter?

Whats the point then? Obviously this favours long rest based classes who will be able to nova the crap out of it.

To be more realistic how about you instead go 6 combat encounters and allow for 2 short rests.

Or go the other way and do 10 combat encounters with a short rest after each one. Watch the fighter dominate.

I've never seen an adventure with only a single combat encounter in it.

 

[Flamestrike]

Adding onto the theme of choice, I'll have 2 different combat encounters based on which general the party chooses to weaken.

Add 4 more combat encounters and permit the fighter a short rest after every second one.

Level the playing field please.

 

[Asisreo]

A single combat encounter? Youre cramming an entires days XP into one encounter?

Whats the point then? Obviously this favours long rest based classes who will be able to nova the crap out of it.

To be more realistic how about you instead go 6 combat encounters and allow for 2 short rests.

Or go the other way and do 10 combat encounters with a short rest after each one. Watch the fighter dominate.

I've never seen an adventure with only a single combat encounter in it.

I kinda want to see how the casters will dominate in this encounter by itself. Its a bit more involved since there are so many high-level monsters.

I want to challenge the very notion that a single combat encounter completely favors a caster. I have a sneaking feeling that these "single combat days" don't actually pay attention to the full adventuring day exp budget and only present fights that were basically easily winnable anyways. In this scenario, its a bit harder to cast just one spell and completely win, especially since concentration and multiple enemies may make lockdown spells trickier to pull off.

But I'm excited to be proven wrong if I can. I don't mind being wrong, I just mind being told I'm wrong but not having any confirming experience.

However, there will still be external encounters which run chances of exhausting their resources like traps and non-explicitly combat encounters, so I want to see if casters can reserve enough resources at the end of the day.

I want the full high-level one-encounter experience to truly feel what the community feels, I think I already know a 6-8, 2sr day will have significant resource expenditure.

 

[Shiroiken]

A single combat encounter? Youre cramming an entires days XP into one encounter?

Whats the point then? Obviously this favours long rest based classes who will be able to nova the crap out of it.

My thought exactly. A lot of people have balance issues with 5E that are largely predicated on 2-3 hard combats per day, rather than the recommended 6-8 medium encounters. At the assumed encounters, long rest characters (particularly casters) tend to start strong, but end up well behind short rest characters once down to cantrips.