D&D (2024) High tier Fighter − the mythic warrior

[FrogReaver]

The difference is that the mythic is defined by his abilities, and can use them (and slant-use-them) more freely, but can't change them. The wizard can change their spells each day, and so gains way more flexibility.. but that flexibility should come at the cost of raw power. Let wizards/full casters be the heisenwizards, let the mythics be the superheros.

Edit: see also the Hero system.

Again, in regards to what I care about it’s all still magic - and whether it’s spellcasting or supernatural mythical abilities, both are the equally not wanted on fighters by me and many others.

Also of importance - mythical fighters and non mythical fighters will never be fictionally workable in the same game. The moment the non-mythical surpasses the mythical at combat (as would be required for any semblance of balance) the mythical stops fictionally being mythical.

 

[Yaarel]

Starting here. I submit that with high level wizards in their current state that it’s impossible for a fictional fighter to match them in the exploration pillar without equivalent magic.

Because of this inability to match the exploration pillar then fighter do need to be completely superior at least at certain aspects of combat when compared with wizards.

The general standards are thus bunk! A fairy tale we tell to make the kids happy.

As far as I can tell, the camp of players who prefer a "nonmagical" Fighter are nevertheless comfortable with the Fighter class using a magic item, or with the multiverse itself being inherently magical.

The Dark Wanderer feature exploits the fact that the multiverse is magical.

It is possible for a Fighter feature to choose or create a magic item. Few would begrudge a feat that would do this. As a feature, the idea is the magic item itself seeks out a champion that is worthy of it and magically finds its way to the Fighter, such as via a series of coincidences within the fabric of fate. The Fighter feature can allow the player to choose how one acqires the magic item therby choose the flavor for the mythic warrior.

The non-Fighter mythic warrior classes can access magic more directly to gain competence in high tier social and exploration encounters.

Because D&D is primarily a combat game - yet it is possible to play without any combat - class balance requires equal contribution to each pillar of play, whether combat, social, or exploration.

 

[Shardstone]

They could make the simple fighter feel better in a few easy ways by adding onto their 11th level+ features with things like:

• A guaranteed called shot feature that lets a fighter inflict conditions for hitting consecutive attacks on the same round.
• The ability to deal 10x their level in damage when they hit a successful attack once per long rest for huge spike damage, representing how lethal the fighter is with a weapon in hand.
• The ability to treat any improvised object as another weapon of their choice, catching the movie fluff of the fighter just picking up random stuff and kicking butt with it.
• The ability to strike an opponent so hard you lower their maximum hit points.
• The ability to figure out how an enemy fights and neutralize any modifiers to its attacks.
• The ability to combo attack with an ally's reaction against a target in range.
• The ability to predict a creature's turn in battle and interrupt it, dealing critical damage and ending their turn immediately.
• The ability to reroll initiative for other creatures in combat through orders or intimidation.
• The ability to apply any weapon mastery of their choice to any weapon, showcasing their ungodly skill with armaments.
• The ability to immediately attune to a magic weapon, armor, or shield through raw experience.
• The ability to use the environment to deal other kinds of damage with a weapon attack.

Just a handful of these features, each of which is incredibly simple, could give the Fighter a little bit of juice while keeping it streamlined for casual play. Since high-level play also involves way more involvement from the players, you could even make it a grabbag and every fighter picks their favorite "Epic Triumphs of Skill" at odd-numbered levels from 11th onward.

Simple solutions like these could give the fighter greater appeal to players who like a little more juice to their gameplay. You could even say at each odd-numbered level, you receive X thing OR you can choose from the options below. This means that you can just take the typical level up or get a little custom with it.

All of these features would be easy to flavor as either grounded or mythic. You can immediately attune to that magic sword because you know every sword as well as you do your own body. OR you can do so because you're the stuff of legend and magic weapons want to be in your story. Etc etc.

I know we won't get this kind of stuff from WotC at this point, but I'm really sharing these ideas as a proof of concept that yes, you can have a slightly more exciting fighter without compromising at ALL on complexity.

 

[FrogReaver]

They could make the simple fighter feel better in a few easy ways by adding onto their 11th level+ features with things like:

• A guaranteed called shot feature that lets a fighter inflict conditions for hitting consecutive attacks on the same round.
• The ability to deal 10x their level in damage when they hit a successful attack once per long rest for huge spike damage, representing how lethal the fighter is with a weapon in hand.
• The ability to treat any improvised object as another weapon of their choice, catching the movie fluff of the fighter just picking up random stuff and kicking butt with it.
• The ability to strike an opponent so hard you lower their maximum hit points.
• The ability to figure out how an enemy fights and neutralize any modifiers to its attacks.
• The ability to combo attack with an ally's reaction against a target in range.
• The ability to predict a creature's turn in battle and interrupt it, dealing critical damage and ending their turn immediately.
• The ability to reroll initiative for other creatures in combat through orders or intimidation.
• The ability to apply any weapon mastery of their choice to any weapon, showcasing their ungodly skill with armaments.
• The ability to immediately attune to a magic weapon, armor, or shield through raw experience.
• The ability to use the environment to deal other kinds of damage with a weapon attack.

Just a handful of these features, each of which is incredibly simple, could give the Fighter a little bit of juice while keeping it streamlined for casual play. Since high-level play also involves way more involvement from the players, you could even make it a grabbag and every fighter picks their favorite "Epic Triumphs of Skill" at odd-numbered levels from 11th onward.

Simple solutions like these could give the fighter greater appeal to players who like a little more juice to their gameplay. You could even say at each odd-numbered level, you receive X thing OR you can choose from the options below. This means that you can just take the typical level up or get a little custom with it.

All of these features would be easy to flavor as either grounded or mythic. You can immediately attune to that magic sword because you know every sword as well as you do your own body. OR you can do so because you're the stuff of legend and magic weapons want to be in your story. Etc etc.

I know we won't get this kind of stuff from WotC at this point, but I'm really sharing these ideas as a proof of concept that yes, you can have a slightly more exciting fighter without compromising at ALL on complexity.

I like this! I’ll not though that this is dealing strictly with combat and a good chunk of the convo has been Out of combat. Those are much harder IMO.

 

[Shardstone]

I like this! I’ll not though that this is dealing strictly with combat and a good chunk of the convo has been Out of combat. Those are much harder IMO.

Agreed but tbh, if the class is called Fighter, let's just go ahead and at least make it more exciting in combat. Ribbons and out of combat features IMO should probably be found in Fighter subclasses.

 

[FrogReaver]

Because D&D is primarily a combat game - yet it is possible to play without any combat - class balance requires equal contribution to each pillar of play, whether combat, social, or exploration.

Sounds more like aspiration than reality. Current 5e has huge disparities between classes in all the pillars. Even then I’m not sure it’s a worthwhile goal aspiring toward. I could agree with something softer, every character should have something to contribute in every pillar.

 

[Yaarel]

I prefer any combat-ending Condition, including Frightened, Stunned, Blinded, or so on, to require the target to already be Bloodied.

This Bloodied requirement would apply to both spells and nonmagical features.

That said, perhaps Grandmaster tier (13-16) and higher can have spells and features that shortcircuit combat earlier.

 

[Yaarel]

Sounds more like aspiration than reality. Current 5e has huge disparities between classes in all the pillars. Even then I’m not sure it’s a worthwhile goal aspiring toward. I could agree with something softer, every character should have something to contribute in every pillar.

1e is an example of a D&D game that lacks class balance. 1e has its fun aspects. At the same time 1e is a cautionary tale that warns why it is important to design for class balance.

 

[FrogReaver]

1e is an example of a D&D game that lacks class balance. 1e has its fun aspects. At the same time 1e is a cautionary tale that warns why it is important to design for class balance.

Didn’t say not to balance just that each pillar didn’t need equally balanced.

 

[Yaarel]

Didn’t say not to balance just that each pillar didn’t need equally balanced.

To be more power in one pillar and less powerful in an other pillar is to lack balance.

For example, in a game that focuses on combat encounters or social encounters, the players who have a subpar class are likely to enjoy D&D less.