D&D (2024) High Tiers = Superheroes

[tetrasodium]

Having actually played marvel superheroes before I can say it's so different from d&d that it makes any comparisons rather questionable at best.

 

[le Redoutable]

I think the idea here isn't to put in relation the MCU with DnD, but just to give a translation of the FASERIP ranks with DnD stats values;
( I put this moment here ( lol ) because FASERIP uses 4 types of results, that I have widely taken for my own works in the 2d10 system )

 

[Krachek]

As a rule of thumb:

Fame = 10^level/2


For example:

When level = 12:

Fame = 10^ (12/2) = 10^6 = 1,000,000

So, when at the Master tier at level 12, about a million people know who this person is. This is the contemporary population of a large cosmopolitan city or a small nation.


With a Grandmaster at level 16, about a 100,000,000 people are familiar. This is fame across a very large nation.

Note, at Legend level 17, the fame is among roughly 320,000,000 persons (10^8.5). Consider how in reallife year 1000, the entire human species might have a global population of about 275,000,000. The Legend tier correlates with fame across other planes and planets as well, and the populations there.


When referring to the "Masters of the Realm", it doesnt necessarily mean the leaders of a realm. It does mean celebrity (or notorious villain). It could be celebrated sports hero, like knight who wins many swordfighting contests, and is the "master of the sport", known by many. It can also mean, the leaders of a realm. If the players are ambitious in this way, the DM should encourage it. Then use the fame to determine the scale of the political game.

The problem with those assumptions and rule of thumb, they got derailled as soon as you are concretely playing high level on a regular basis.
To sustain a high level adventure you need a immense amount of legendary characters or even only famous like a 12th level character. all of them will be thrown into the meet grinder as the party go adventuring.
That should make the entire world into continual national funeral as famous heroes are shut down by a high level adventuring party.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

A superheroes d20 may be broken easily. For example a mutant-hunter Sentinel robot can be easy for Hulk or Thor, but a true nightmare for Daredevil, Punisher, Black Widow or Hawkeye.

The superheroes were created to be "broken" or overpowered, but the current generations are used to videogames, where the main characters are designed with a balance between power and vulneravility, success and failure.

D&D hasn't been designed PCs to can jump over roofs and trees as a grasshopper or to throw charrions with their own nude hands.

My solution has been in a superhero d20 the level would be the same, but the XPs reward could be spent to unlock "talent trees", something like a parallel leveling up but without hit-points or bonus for save and attack.

 

[Krachek]

I can't speak to the Marvel side of the comparison with much expertise, but I think this tiering system significantly understates the expected power/significance of 5e characters. The "official" tiers described in the PHB and DMG are:

Local Heroes (Levels 1-4)
Heroes of the Realm (Levels 5-10)
Masters of the Realm (Levels 11-16)
Masters of the World (Levels 17-20)

For my understanding I rather use
1-4 minor league, in training, often disorganized
5-10 professional: warrior, wizard, criminal
11-16 Elite status. Special ops military, gifted wizard, uncanny assassins.
17+ Legendary. Best of his generation. Seen only once every ten years.

 

[Yaarel]

Currently I am preferring a third column (3) that is a compromise between (1) and (2) in the Original Post. It has all of the main ranks of the superhero game, like column (1), but it still stretches out like column (2) to push the extreme ranks far up into Epic tier. It also places the D&D Student tier (1−4) in the Good (10) rank with slight upgrades (13) and (16), which feels about right to me. I like how the Excellent (20) rank initiates the Professional tier, and Amazing (50) the Grandmaster tier. Unearthly (100) is functionally the capstone of the superhero campaign, but it is possible to continue into Epic for Thor and Superman Shift-X powers. Superhero style characters start coming online during the Master tier. So this superhero gaming style would start to happen when most 5e games are currently starting to end.

D&D 5e Tiers (Levels)	MARVEL SUPER HEROES (3)
Zero (0)	[4.0] [≈4] Poor (4)
Zero (0)	[5.0] [≈5]
Zero (0)	[6.3] [≈6] Typical (6)
Zero (0)	[7.9] [≈8]
Zero (0)	[10] Good (10)
Student (1−2)	[13]
Student (3−4)	[16]
Professional (5−6)	[20] Excellent (20)
Professional (7−8)	[25]
Master (9−10)	[32] Remarkable (30)
Master (11−12)	[40] Incredible (40)
Grandmaster (13−14)	[50] Amazing (50)
Grandmaster (15−16)	[63]
Legend (17−18)	[79] Monstrous (75)
Legend (19−20)	[100] Unearthly (100)
Epic (21−22)	[130]
Epic (23−24)	[160] Shift-X (150)
Epic (25−26)	[200] Shift-Y (200)
Epic (27−28)	[250]
Epic (29−30)	[320]
Epic (31−32)	[400]
Epic (33−34)	[500] Shift-Z (500)
Epic (35−36)	[630]
Epic (37−38)	[790]
Epic (39−40)	[1000] Class-1000 (1000)

 

[le Redoutable]

I personally use the BASE system, with your BASE being your highest path value ( from 3 to 10 )

BASE value
1 1
2 1 -> 4 depreciated to a max of 3
3 1 -> 9 depreciated to a max of 6
4 1 -> 16 depreciated to a max of 9
5 1 -> 25 depreciated to a max of 14
6 1 -> 36 depreciated to a max of 18
7 1 -> 49 depreciated to a max of 25
8 1 -> 64 depreciated to a max of 30
9 1 -> 81 depreciated to a max of 36
10 1 -> 100 depreciated to a max of 42

( to use a given stat you multiply two paths,
as in example from a BASE 6
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 8
8 9
9 10
10 12
11 15
12 16
13 18
14 20
15 24
16 25
17 30
18 36
)
note that a beginning chr might be using BASE 6 ( so a max stat score of 18 )
while a more experimented one have access to BASE 7 ( max score of 25 )

so
BASE 5 0-level npc
BASE 6 low-level pc
BASE 7 epic
BASE 8 legendary / God
BASE 9 Celestial Body ( Titan )
BASE 10 Cosmic Force

 

[Yaarel]

The problem with those assumptions and rule of thumb, they got derailled as soon as you are concretely playing high level on a regular basis.
To sustain a high level adventure you need a immense amount of legendary characters or even only famous like a 12th level character. all of them will be thrown into the meet grinder as the party go adventuring.
That should make the entire world into continual national funeral as famous heroes are shut down by a high level adventuring party.

That is a good point about "national funerals" becoming a recurring theme in a high-play world.

I havent had too much difficulty with that, because adventures tend to go into other planes of existence at these high levels.

Supposing the players get interested in founding governments in the Material Plane. If the party is Good and the opponents tyrannical, to defeat the tyrants can mean players help design governments, build a fairer legal system, and found a more free and more democratic society, who hopefully remains a member of a network of allies. Actually this is great way for reallife players to learn civics. Think of things that go wrong and contemplate how to restore and maintain.

Of course, game of Risk, of empire building and colonialism, where the player characters are the tyrants, is also possible in a fantasy setting. I am unsure I could get into that as a DM.

 

[le Redoutable]

I don't see the point;
what about resurrection on a daily basis ?

 

[Yaarel]

what about resurrection on a daily basis ?

If one is fighting high tier Evil creatures who are harming many people, one tends to want the Evil creatures to stay dead or contained by other means, at least until behaving better.