Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Marvel Super Heroes is a historic game from the 1980s. It is of interest here because it officially ranks the Marvel superheroes across a curve of increasing magnitudes of power.
In D&D 5e, Fighters compete with spellcasters. Most players play spellcasters. At the highest tiers, the Fighter class and the spellcaster classes roughly balance with each other with regard to combat encounters. But they dramatically imbalance with each other in noncombat encounters, including social encounters and exploration encounters. The abundance of options that spell effects make possible, grants spellcasters extraordinary control over the adventure narrative. Often, spellcasters can pick a scenario of their own choosing, and whether a combat can happen or not. The Fighter class lacks this kind of narrative control.
A main solution is to grant the Fighter class more "Martial magic" at the highest tiers. These superhuman powers are less necessary for Fighter combat, which is already superhuman, but are necessary for Fighter noncombat. Flavorwise, the superhuman Fighter leans into mythic warriors like Hercules, wuxia warriors of various schools, and superheroes like Iron Man and Spiderman. How much power should the Fighter class be able to have? What kinds of powers should the Fighter gain? This is where the comparison with superheroes serves as a convenient point of reference.
I am torn between two approaches: column (1) and column (2). The main difference is whether the superheroes with "Unearthly" and "Shift-X" abilities, like Marvel Thor and DC Superman, equate to the D&D Legend tier (levels 17-20) or the D&D Epic tier (levels 21-24).
I actually prefer the beefier approach (1). I see Superman and Thor as fully in the Legend tier (levels 17-20). When analyzing their specific powers such as impervious body armor, flight, speed that resembles time-stop, laserbeam eyes Radiant damage, and so on, D&D seems able to approximate all of these effects via high level spell effects, especially if new spells get added to the game.
As of now, only about 5% of D&D 5e players ever reach the upper tiers: "Grandmaster" (levels 13−16) and "Legend" (levels 17−20). I suspect, if D&D 5e embraces the fact that these are the "superhero tiers", and sells them as such, many more players will enjoy these upper tiers to make superhero characters for a superhero game. When everyone clearly understands that a high-tier Fighter is a superhero, the Fighter class will do fine in comparison to spellcasters.
I also add a second approach in column (2). It is the same idea the high tiers are superheroes. But it stretches out the Marvel Super Heroes rankings, so the most powerful superheroes are Epic rather than Legend. (At the lowest tier, it is moreorless relative whether to define the Student tier levels 1−4 as "Poor" or "Good", when comparing it to the superheroes.) For me the main appeal of the stretched column (2), is the curve of increasing magnitude is smoother. This means, if one character is 10 times stronger than an other character, there is a clearer sense of which levels their respective powers belong to. Other players might appreciate the second column (2) as a less magical approach, where the extremes of the superhero genre get pushed farther away into higher levels − farther away from the Tolkienesque low tiers.
The Tolkien flavor mainly corresponds to the Professional tier (levels 5−8) with the Master tier (levels 9−12) as the upper cap, not including Gandalf if an NPC.
Using either column, a superhero like the "Amazing" Spiderman corresponds to the D&D 5e Grandmaster tier (levels 13−16). But the implications of whether Superman is Legend or Epic might require pushing some official D&D spells up higher into Epic tier levels.
I prefer the column (1), and D&D is a full-on superhero game at the higher tiers. But the slower steadier approach (2) is worth considering.
Here is the famous table for the "faserip" system.
And for points of reference, here are examples of specific superhero characters.
In D&D 5e, Fighters compete with spellcasters. Most players play spellcasters. At the highest tiers, the Fighter class and the spellcaster classes roughly balance with each other with regard to combat encounters. But they dramatically imbalance with each other in noncombat encounters, including social encounters and exploration encounters. The abundance of options that spell effects make possible, grants spellcasters extraordinary control over the adventure narrative. Often, spellcasters can pick a scenario of their own choosing, and whether a combat can happen or not. The Fighter class lacks this kind of narrative control.
A main solution is to grant the Fighter class more "Martial magic" at the highest tiers. These superhuman powers are less necessary for Fighter combat, which is already superhuman, but are necessary for Fighter noncombat. Flavorwise, the superhuman Fighter leans into mythic warriors like Hercules, wuxia warriors of various schools, and superheroes like Iron Man and Spiderman. How much power should the Fighter class be able to have? What kinds of powers should the Fighter gain? This is where the comparison with superheroes serves as a convenient point of reference.
I am torn between two approaches: column (1) and column (2). The main difference is whether the superheroes with "Unearthly" and "Shift-X" abilities, like Marvel Thor and DC Superman, equate to the D&D Legend tier (levels 17-20) or the D&D Epic tier (levels 21-24).
I actually prefer the beefier approach (1). I see Superman and Thor as fully in the Legend tier (levels 17-20). When analyzing their specific powers such as impervious body armor, flight, speed that resembles time-stop, laserbeam eyes Radiant damage, and so on, D&D seems able to approximate all of these effects via high level spell effects, especially if new spells get added to the game.
As of now, only about 5% of D&D 5e players ever reach the upper tiers: "Grandmaster" (levels 13−16) and "Legend" (levels 17−20). I suspect, if D&D 5e embraces the fact that these are the "superhero tiers", and sells them as such, many more players will enjoy these upper tiers to make superhero characters for a superhero game. When everyone clearly understands that a high-tier Fighter is a superhero, the Fighter class will do fine in comparison to spellcasters.
I also add a second approach in column (2). It is the same idea the high tiers are superheroes. But it stretches out the Marvel Super Heroes rankings, so the most powerful superheroes are Epic rather than Legend. (At the lowest tier, it is moreorless relative whether to define the Student tier levels 1−4 as "Poor" or "Good", when comparing it to the superheroes.) For me the main appeal of the stretched column (2), is the curve of increasing magnitude is smoother. This means, if one character is 10 times stronger than an other character, there is a clearer sense of which levels their respective powers belong to. Other players might appreciate the second column (2) as a less magical approach, where the extremes of the superhero genre get pushed farther away into higher levels − farther away from the Tolkienesque low tiers.
The Tolkien flavor mainly corresponds to the Professional tier (levels 5−8) with the Master tier (levels 9−12) as the upper cap, not including Gandalf if an NPC.
Using either column, a superhero like the "Amazing" Spiderman corresponds to the D&D 5e Grandmaster tier (levels 13−16). But the implications of whether Superman is Legend or Epic might require pushing some official D&D spells up higher into Epic tier levels.
I prefer the column (1), and D&D is a full-on superhero game at the higher tiers. But the slower steadier approach (2) is worth considering.
| D&D 5e Tiers (Levels) | MARVEL SUPER HEROES (1) | MARVEL SUPER HEROES (2) |
| Zero (0) | [4.0] Poor (4) | |
| Zero (0) | [5.0] | |
| Zero (0) | Shift-0 (0) | [6.3] Typical (6) |
| Zero (0) | Feeble (2) | [7.9] |
| Student (1−2) | Poor (4) | [10] Good (10) |
| Student (3−4) | Typical (6) | [13] |
| Professional (5−6) | Good (10) | [16] |
| Professional (7−8) | Excellent (20) | [20] Excellent (20) |
| Master (9−10) | Remarkable (30) | [25] |
| Master (11−12) | Incredible (40) | [32] Remarkable (30) |
| Grandmaster (13−14) | Amazing (50) | [40] Incredible (40) |
| Grandmaster (15−16) | Monstrous (75) | [50] Amazing (50) |
| Legend (17−18) | Unearthly (100) | [63] |
| Legend (19−20) | Shift-X (150) | [79] Monstrous (75) |
| Epic (21−22) | Shift-Y (200) | [100] Unearthly (100) |
| Epic (23−24) | Shift-Z (500) | [130] |
| Epic (25−26) | Class-1000 (1000) | [160] Shift-X (150) |
| Epic (27−28) | Class-3000 (3000) | [200] Shift-Y (200) |
| Epic (29−30) | Class-5000 (5000) | [250] |
| Epic (31−32) | Beyond (∞) | [320] |
| Epic (33−34) | [400] | |
| Epic (35−36) | [500] Shift-Z (500) | |
| Epic (37−38) | [630] | |
| Epic (39−40) | [790] | |
| Epic (41−42) | [1000] Class-1000 (1000) |
Here is the famous table for the "faserip" system.
And for points of reference, here are examples of specific superhero characters.
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