WotC 2020 Was The Best Year Ever For Dungeons & Dragons

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I'm not @Northern Phoenix, but I am a younger member of these forums, and so I feel that my experience is worth saying.

If you don't mind me asking, do you find that members of forums that make them unwelcoming to be directly or indirectly problematic? In other words, do you find folks being passive aggressive to your posts in particular, or do you find that there's just a sort set assumption that forums cater to a certain "generation" of gamers?

In my experience on these forums and those of D&D Beyond, it's both. Certain people are more passive aggressive towards younger generations/styles of play than others, and some are more directly and outright hostile. Both attitudes seem to be more common on this site's forums than those of D&D Beyond, but the more outright and direct hostility seems particularly common here in comparison to D&D Beyond's forums.

However, the passive aggressive type of hostility is by far the most common on both sites. I can count the amount of times I've been told by an older-style player that "D&D is being destroyed by Eberron and Critical Role" using the fingers on both hands, but I can't count the amount of times I've heard people say stuff like, "It's not my cup of tea, let me list all of the reasons I hate it and why I don't think it should be in the hobby, but you do you". There are quite a few outspoken advocates for the newer generation of D&D and their style, which can be seen in this thread and other similar ones, though, which does help.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not @Northern Phoenix, but I am a younger member of these forums, and so I feel that my experience is worth saying.

In my experience on these forums and those of D&D Beyond, it's both. Certain people are more passive aggressive towards younger generations/styles of play than other, and some are more directly and outright hostile. Both attitudes seem to be more common on this site's forums than those of D&D Beyond, but the more outright and direct hostility seems particularly common here in comparison to D&D Beyond's forums.

However, the passive aggressive type of hostility is by far the most common on both sites. I can count the amount of times I've been told by an older-style player that "D&D was being destroyed by Eberron and Critical Role" using the fingers on both hands, but I can't count the amount of times I've heard people say stuff like, "It's not my cup of tea, let me list all of the reasons I hate it and why I don't think it should be in the hobby, but you do you". There are quite a few outspoken advocates for the newer generation of D&D and their style, which can be seen in this thread and other similar ones, though, which does help.

Thanks. I admit to being kind of vocal about not liking certain aesthetics in the Fandom I generally attribute to younger players (what I call "cutesy") but I try really hard to be welcoming to those players regardless. This past year not so much with covid, but I run a lot of con games and find I generally enjoy younger players than a lot of older players when running 5E. They often have a sense of possibility and wonder you see less with older players.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you find that WOTC is not properly catering to your taste, Goodman Games is more then willing to take your money in exchange for goods/services!

Goodman Games|Your Source for Adventures

goodman-games.com

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think that would be amazing. I've got to imagine D&D is a pretty healthy for the mind (despite some of what you read here), and it's a great social activity too. Perfect for the elderly!

D&D is Great for the mind! Hell yeah get it into nursing homes.
Also, getting strangers into nursing homes in an organized fashion and having them befriend the residents is one of many ways to force improvement of conditions there. Win/win.

Disagree with what?

That CURSE OF STRAHD was their bestselling adventure? That VGR was spearheaded by Wes Schneider?
Those seem hard to debate

Or do you mean older gamers disagree that they don't have to make books based on nostalgia?
Well they would, but they no longer matter
72% of the audience is below 34 and only familiar with 5th and 4th Ed. Ya can't have nostalgia for adventures and an edition written before you were born. 4th Ed nostalgia might become more important

I mean I’m 36 and I started with 2e. I’ve very little nostalgia about anything, though, so I am perhaps a bad example.

Anyway, you’re wrong. They do care what older gamers want, and will continue to make products they think will appeal to older and younger gamers.

And the new Ravenloft book appeals to rather a huge swath of older gamers.

 

[Parmandur]

Didn't say anything bout being included
Some old gamers might feel included or like the new products. But that don't mean WizCo is setting out to include them
Their inclusion is accidental

WizCo is making books for the 70% of players who are young and new to the game
And looking to make products that will bring in MORE young and new players not currently playing
They're not setting out to exclude old gamers. They're just focusing on new gamers and any old gamers that keep playing are a bonus

If that us what you think is happening, your perspective is off. WorC still bends over backwards to appeal to older players, constantly.

 

[Oofta]

If that us what you think is happening, your perspective is off. WorC still bends over backwards to appeal to older players, constantly.

Do they? I mean, yes, a lot of the old "classics" get redone. I don't particularly care for them myself since I'm not particularly into nostalgia, but I'm not sure the reason is what you're implying.

There seems to be the idea for the corporate types that if it worked before it should work again. It's like Hollywood doing the "safe bet" and doing remakes and sequels. Yes, it's to certain degree fan service, but I'm not sure that's the primary motivation.

But it's just wild speculation with absolutely no basis in actual fact.

 

[darjr]

WotC and DMSGuild paid for a historian to write pieces from scratch for classic books being re-released in pdf and in print on demand. That IS catering to older fans of that material. That's something they didn't need to do. That's something that is difficult to prove if it had ANY affect on the bottom line or sales. But no, people need a windmill to rage against.

 

[Parmandur]

Do they? I mean, yes, a lot of the old "classics" get redone. I don't particularly care for them myself since I'm not particularly into nostalgia, but I'm not sure the reason is what you're implying.

There seems to be the idea for the corporate types that if it worked before it should work again. It's like Hollywood doing the "safe bet" and doing remakes and sequels. Yes, it's to certain degree fan service, but I'm not sure that's the primary motivation.

But it's just wild speculation with absolutely no basis in actual fact.

They do, within the bounds of reason. Their approach has been balanced, overall, but they aren't throwing any group of fans away, or not providing material.

 

[Oofta]

They do, within the bounds of reason. Their approach has been balanced, overall, but they aren't throwing any group of fans away, or not providing material.

We probably have a different definition of "bend over backwards".

I'm not really the target audience for most modules or campaign setting books, but I can also kind of understand why they would redo Ravenloft and related settings rather than come up with brand new stuff. I mean, if you're going to have the gothic horror vibe there's not a lot of reason to not dig up and reanimate a dead setting.

There are only so many variations of D&D campaigns that fit into general genres. If you have an old setting that fits the genre why not use it if you can bring it up to modern standards? That doesn't mean they're doing it for any specific group. Personally I'd kind of like to see more creativity and truly new stuff, but corporate types seem to prefer "proven" ideas.

They have been re-releasing PDFs of old versions of the game, but that's just taking advantage of the long tail of sales at a minimal cost.

 

[Mistwell]

So we have come to the point of the thread where calling someone 'grognard' is ageism and discrimination.

Not really what I was trying to say. I was trying to say ageism is a real and meaningful form of discrimination, and if people perceive a comment to be taking joy in older people being squeezed out of the game, that should not be met with derision. It can be a good thing that the game is attracting tons of younger people, while also not appearing to take pleasure that an older generation is starting to feel left out of the demographic.

Recent studies show there is a growing trend for people who claim to support equality for all (when it comes to race and gender and sexual preference) often don't support it for age.