D&D 5E Volo's 5e vs Tasha's 5e where do you see 5e heading?

[Ruin Explorer]

If it does spread, it's power creep maybe. But what does that really mean? An extra orc thrown into the encounter with orcs? It's not a big deal. Just monitor throw well your players are handling the threats and modulate the threat level up if they're curb-stomping the adventure module.

Oh, I don't think it's an actual problem. Giving players an extra Feat, esp. if there are any limits on it, at level 1, doesn't massively impact balance, and the Gifts aren't much more extreme and allow more customization, which is a major bonus. But denying that power creep is even happening is just unhelpful.

I do think we can see that WotC is JUST getting started.

I doubt it. If there isn't a 6E or something very like it in 2024 I'll be shocked. And your entire understanding of the Psionics issue wrong. They tried to get Psionics out relatively quickly, but they applied an idiotic test to it that any full-caster class would have certainly failed, and then all the attempts thereafter have been half-hearted and confused, and not the result of "years of internal playtesting". Psionics was certainly intended to be out by late 2017 or early 2018 though. Also it's a terrible measure for edition length. 3E got Psionics out 2001, even earlier than 4E. 2E got them out in 1991, only two years after release. In every edition after 1E, D&D has tried to get out Psionics in pretty quickly. This includes 5E. 5E is just the one they failed at due to what was, frankly, their own stupidity/perversity, when they were taking an entirely different and vastly more cautious approach to 5E, one I would argue was significantly less successful than the more recent approach at moving books and keeping people happy and excited for new product.

On the other hand I think that whatever form 6E takes it is likely to be heavily backwards-compatible with 5E, to the point where some people will claim it's "just 5.5E" even when that is manifestly false. It almost certainly won't be called 6E by WotC.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not as optimistic on how many years you can due that without a noticeable dip in sales. I don't think there really are that many big name, old school settings and archetypes left that WOTC can tap into that with bring the same level of buzz Ravnica or Ravenloft brought. I just don't see the back log that brings that level of hype. Especially if it's true that more than half of players are under 35.

There's only so many MTG settings you can do before you get yawns. And many of the old settings that themes that aren't popular anymore unless you add to them (and anger old fans who are needed to hype them up with clicks).

It's not like Games Workshop were you can dangle codexes like carrots for 15 years because you have a bajillion factions in the lore

What I can't quite figure out is why you don't think that WotC will be watching for those dips caused by -- for example -- MtG setting fatigue. You aren't necessarily wrong in that WotC can't mine the same stuff forever, but there is no reason to believe they will do so.

 

[Marandahir]

What I can't quite figure out is why you don't think that WotC will be watching for those dips caused by -- for example -- MtG setting fatigue. You aren't necessarily wrong in that WotC can't mine the same stuff forever, but there is no reason to believe they will do so.

I honestly think they could confidently release at least Zendikar, New Phyrexia/Mirrordin, Kaladesh, and Alara. That's 8 years of gameplay since they don't release a Magic setting every year.

(I exclude Dominaria because there are a LOT of core D&D standard high fantasy settings to release still as well; Lorwyn & Shadowmoor because Feywild and Shadowfell; Kamigawa, Tarkir, and Amonkhet because of history of and potential for racist depictions; and Innistrad & Ixalan because comparable settings have already been released in 5e.).

I see an anthology adventure book every 2 years on the odds (Tales from the Yawning Portal, Ghosts of Saltmarsh, Candlekeep Mysteries), a Magic setting every 2 years on the evens (Ravnica, Theros), and a big book of options every year or every other year (2 out of every 3 years). And going forward, just a single adventure path released in September, to carry AL all year until the next autumn. The rest of the year taken up by campaign settings and books of options (and adventure anthologies). I can EASILY see that sustained through 2030, and with some imagination sustained all the way to 2034 and the 60th Anniversary.

 

[Minigiant]

What I can't quite figure out is why you don't think that WotC will be watching for those dips caused by -- for example -- MtG setting fatigue. You aren't necessarily wrong in that WotC can't mine the same stuff forever, but there is no reason to believe they will do so.

Their current stubbornness and sluggishness in creating fan requested content and my years in corporate sales.

 

[Marandahir]

Their current stubbornness and sluggishness in creating fan requested content and my years in corporate sales.

Which fans? How many fans are requesting?

Our forums are not a good sample of what D&D players want. They have a LOT more big data than we do of what players & DMs want.

I don't doubt your know how and experience on corporate sales. Just wondering what data you're using to come to this conclusion. I know that WotC has a wealth of data that we do not have access to.

 

[Minigiant]

Which fans? How many fans are requesting?

Our forums are not a good sample of what D&D players want. They have a LOT more big data than we do of what players & DMs want.

I don't doubt your know how and experience on corporate sales. Just wondering what data you're using to come to this conclusion. I know that WotC has a wealth of data that we do not have access to.

Every D&D forum or platform that hosted 5e content that I've looked that has been requesting several of the same things.
Some of them reached meme status like "Ranger bad".

Didn't make WOTC move any faster or take any more risks

 

[Parmandur]

I'm not as optimistic on how many years you can due that without a noticeable dip in sales. I don't think there really are that many big name, old school settings and archetypes left that WOTC can tap into that with bring the same level of buzz Ravnica or Ravenloft brought. I just don't see the back log that brings that level of hype. Especially if it's true that more than half of players are under 35.

There's only so many MTG settings you can do before you get yawns. And many of the old settings that themes that aren't popular anymore unless you add to them (and anger old fans who are needed to hype them up with clicks).

It's not like Games Workshop were you can dangle codexes like carrots for 15 years because you have a bajillion factions in the lore

Every D&D forum or platform that hosted 5e content that I've looked that has been requesting several of the same things.
Some of them reached meme status like "Ranger bad".

Didn't make WOTC move any faster or take any more risks

Yet still WotC's numbers showed there was overwhelming satisfaction with thebRangee...even if less overwhelming than other Classes. That's the issue, they are trying to please a majority, not the vocal customers. That takes time and consideration.

 

[Marandahir]

Yet still WotC's numbers showed there was overwhelming satisfaction with thebRangee...even if less overwhelming than other Classes. That's the issue, they are trying to please a majority, not the vocal customers. That takes time and consideration.

This is the crux of the matter. They took us shouts of Ranger bad seriously. But when looking at the aggregate data, found that we're a vocal minority. There's an issue of Ranger balance, but it was more of a subtle thing, to be addressed with optional changes playtested over a long period of time, rather than an immediate hard left shift when the first outcries on EnWorld and GitP came out in force.

 

[Minigiant]

Yet still WotC's numbers showed there was overwhelming satisfaction with thebRangee...even if less overwhelming than other Classes. That's the issue, they are trying to please a majority, not the vocal customers. That takes time and consideration.

Actually the fact that they repeated did very open UAs on the ranger proves a large percentage were not satisfied but they had trouble satisfying a large percentage without editing the PHB.

No one outside of WOTC really know if it was a majority or not.

 

[Oofta]

Actually the fact that they repeated did very open UAs on the ranger proves a large percentage were not satisfied but they had trouble satisfying a large percentage without editing the PHB.

No one outside of WOTC really know if it was a majority or not.

So you admit you don't know if you're just part of the vocal minority?