D&D 5E What most needs revision for the (hypothetical) 50th anniversary core books?
- Thread starter Mercurius
- Start date
What most needs changed? Races. There has been a significant move away from the original way races were designed, and trying to keep the original races with the newer rules can create some problems. The move away from standard ability scores and cultural abilities like skill & weapon training don't fit with the original races, whose abilities were balanced against these things.
The Mountain Dwarf, for example has an additional +1 to Strength because its other ability is proficiency with light and medium armor. Very few characters have a use for both (although a lot more with the newer subclasses), so choosing it usually doesn't benefit more than any other subrace. Now, however, you could turn that +2 strength into Int or Cha and make an armored wizard or sorcerer without any loss (other than being a stinky dwarf
).
I'd suggest making all non-humans give +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 (like Unearthed Arcana has done lately), with 1 racial benefit, 1 subracial benefit, and maybe 2-3 cultural benefits. Humans are problematic, but honestly the variant Human doesn't need any adjustment. The base human should probably add a cultural benefit (maybe a skill) to help round it out.
The Mountain Dwarf, for example has an additional +1 to Strength because its other ability is proficiency with light and medium armor. Very few characters have a use for both (although a lot more with the newer subclasses), so choosing it usually doesn't benefit more than any other subrace. Now, however, you could turn that +2 strength into Int or Cha and make an armored wizard or sorcerer without any loss (other than being a stinky dwarf
).I'd suggest making all non-humans give +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 (like Unearthed Arcana has done lately), with 1 racial benefit, 1 subracial benefit, and maybe 2-3 cultural benefits. Humans are problematic, but honestly the variant Human doesn't need any adjustment. The base human should probably add a cultural benefit (maybe a skill) to help round it out.
Truest words ever posted?
I am pretty happy with most of the rules as is. Here are the few things I would change:
1. I would like them to relook at the proficiency swaps in Tashas, it is kind of stupid that an Elf Fighter can get a slew of tool proficiencies because he gets martial weapons for free. I think they should trade ALL weapons for one tool or trade one weapon for another.
2. Add proficencies for siege weapons (ballista, catapults, Ram, trebushae, juicer, sidelsinger, etc) and makeshift weapons (as one entry). Also make spiked armor available to all as a proficiency (but don't give the battlerager bonus action) Then the Elf Ranger I mentioned above could swap out his longsword, shortsword and bows for four of these and it would be thematic since he is a martial and presumably studied these things in fighter school.
3. Eliminate ASIs. Feats only, to include half feats. A 20 should be much more difficult to get making it more of an accomplishment. The feats could be expanded some, but no chained feats.
4. Implement upcast options for spells below 4th level that currently do not have them. Things like shield and levitate for example.
Those are the only things that I can think of.
One comment on people wanting classes expanded - I struggle to understand the reason for this. With the huge number of class-subclass-background-race combinations and the feat and multiclass options on top of that, it is difficult for me to understand what kind of character people want that they can't build with what is currently in place in the numerous official rulebooks (not to mention the UA).
1. I would like them to relook at the proficiency swaps in Tashas, it is kind of stupid that an Elf Fighter can get a slew of tool proficiencies because he gets martial weapons for free. I think they should trade ALL weapons for one tool or trade one weapon for another.
2. Add proficencies for siege weapons (ballista, catapults, Ram, trebushae, juicer, sidelsinger, etc) and makeshift weapons (as one entry). Also make spiked armor available to all as a proficiency (but don't give the battlerager bonus action) Then the Elf Ranger I mentioned above could swap out his longsword, shortsword and bows for four of these and it would be thematic since he is a martial and presumably studied these things in fighter school.
3. Eliminate ASIs. Feats only, to include half feats. A 20 should be much more difficult to get making it more of an accomplishment. The feats could be expanded some, but no chained feats.
4. Implement upcast options for spells below 4th level that currently do not have them. Things like shield and levitate for example.
Those are the only things that I can think of.
One comment on people wanting classes expanded - I struggle to understand the reason for this. With the huge number of class-subclass-background-race combinations and the feat and multiclass options on top of that, it is difficult for me to understand what kind of character people want that they can't build with what is currently in place in the numerous official rulebooks (not to mention the UA).
Parmandur
Book-Friend
If I had absolute dictatorial power, I'd
- Make all Classes pick their Subclass at Level 1 which would open up design space for Subclasses significantly,
- Rename the Monk "Mystic" and change Ki points to Spell Slots which they secretly are (among other changes to de-Orientailize them)
- Redesign the Ranger to have terrain be the Subclass choice (Forest Ranger, Desert Ranger, Urban Ranger, Underdark Ranger, Planar Ranger, Phlostigon Ranger, Arctic Ranger, etc.).
- Separate Barbarian cultural flavor from the Rage Class.
- Eliminate milticlassing and Feats. F 'em.
I don't expect such significant changes, however, when 6E does roll around. I do expect the Tasha's approach to Lineages to be used and expanded upon, which is good.
- Make all Classes pick their Subclass at Level 1 which would open up design space for Subclasses significantly,
- Rename the Monk "Mystic" and change Ki points to Spell Slots which they secretly are (among other changes to de-Orientailize them)
- Redesign the Ranger to have terrain be the Subclass choice (Forest Ranger, Desert Ranger, Urban Ranger, Underdark Ranger, Planar Ranger, Phlostigon Ranger, Arctic Ranger, etc.).
- Separate Barbarian cultural flavor from the Rage Class.
- Eliminate milticlassing and Feats. F 'em.
I don't expect such significant changes, however, when 6E does roll around. I do expect the Tasha's approach to Lineages to be used and expanded upon, which is good.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Because WotC has devoted all their attention these days to placating their critics, and their critics don't like those things.
Disgruntled Hobbit
Adventurer
The Dungeon Master's Guide
Different order to the chapters and more focus on advice for new players
Different order to the chapters and more focus on advice for new players
Yaarel
He Mage
There is a difference between a consolidation and a wishlist. The consolidation will include updates and clarifications. To some degree the consolidation must rethink and clarify the race mechanics. Hopefully, Custom Lineage will become central. Traits can be deconstructed from the current races.
Along the lines of wishlist:
I would love for all subclasses to start at level 1. And I prefer the term "archetype" rather than "subclass".
Along the lines of wishlist:
I would love for all subclasses to start at level 1. And I prefer the term "archetype" rather than "subclass".
So the notion about backwards compatible does limit our options a bit. We have to color within the lines so to speak. My general list:
Class Revisions
Tuning some of the big feats like GWM or PAM, give some love to the lesser feats like Weapon Master. I don't need any real fundamental changes in feats, but we need a retune as about half the core feats I consider "bad" and have never seen a single player pick them up. I think its also high time we just gave player a feat or ability bump at 1st level.... there is a reason variant humans are SO popular compared to standard ones.
Spell Revisions
Too many to name. In order to be backwards compatible we can't change the concentration mechanic too much. But I do think we can introduce some limited ways to allow more than one concentration spell at a time. If nothing else, we should remove concentration from several spells in the book. There are spells that are deserving of concentration (Polymorph, Banishment), and those that absolutely do not need to be concentration (Immolation, Cause Fear - no spell that gives a save every round should be concentration imo).
A Better Money Pit
There needs to be more core gold sinks in the game. I respect we don't want magic shops by default, but when you hand treasure to your players and there reaction is...and I quote "hey look guys more worthless gold".... something needs to change.
Class Revisions
- Switch short rests to Prof number per day. Its a good mechanic that helps standardizes the classes better.
- Cleric - Its powerful enough but it seems to rely way too heavily on Bless, Spiritual Weapon, and Spirit Guardians. Every cleric I have ever seen fundamentally looks the same, because they are all packing the same stuff at the end of the day.
- Paladin - Its a solid class, but my personal pet peeve is there is no strong reason to have a good charisma until 6th level. Call me old fashioned, but I like that a paladin has a strong mechanical reason to be charismatic, and I would like to see that back for low level paladins.
- Sorcerer - Has just never quite felt right in this edition, something is missing here.
- Monk - While it doesn't need as much love as some people think it does, there is still tuning here to be done.
Ranger- I think at this point no one will be satisfied with what they do with the ranger. Honestly the newest ranger with some of the newer subclasses seems pretty fun, my players like it.
Tuning some of the big feats like GWM or PAM, give some love to the lesser feats like Weapon Master. I don't need any real fundamental changes in feats, but we need a retune as about half the core feats I consider "bad" and have never seen a single player pick them up. I think its also high time we just gave player a feat or ability bump at 1st level.... there is a reason variant humans are SO popular compared to standard ones.
Spell Revisions
Too many to name. In order to be backwards compatible we can't change the concentration mechanic too much. But I do think we can introduce some limited ways to allow more than one concentration spell at a time. If nothing else, we should remove concentration from several spells in the book. There are spells that are deserving of concentration (Polymorph, Banishment), and those that absolutely do not need to be concentration (Immolation, Cause Fear - no spell that gives a save every round should be concentration imo).
A Better Money Pit
There needs to be more core gold sinks in the game. I respect we don't want magic shops by default, but when you hand treasure to your players and there reaction is...and I quote "hey look guys more worthless gold".... something needs to change.
