D&D 5E Why not Alternity? (Or, will or how might WotC do SF?)

[Don Durito]

Er, Star Frontiers is as the softest, fantasy-est end of science fiction. It's much closer to Star Wars than 2001 a Space Odyssey. I think a lot of SF fans would balk at the idea that Star Frontiers was "real science fiction".

And what's so great about D100? It's easy to convert between D100 and D20.

I think 'real science fiction' here probably means no space magic or force powers. Not necessarily no anti-gravity or faster than light travel and life on other planets being completely imcompatible with terrestial life.

For example there's already a science fiction ruleset for 5e called Esper Genesis, which has space magic of some kind (and a lot of the classes are lazy reskins of D&D classes).

There's also the free 5e Star Wars which is done somewhat better, but again, many of the classes have Force powers.

Traditional space opera rather than hard science fiction.

(Something along these lines was done in the 2e days with the Buck Rogers game).

 

[teitan]

I think they ignore it because other publishers are addressing it including 3PP 5e designers. They don't need it and supporting multiple games is bad for their bottom line.

 

[Umbran]

I don't know about you, but I'm talking about the novel.

I am too.

And it's not specifically non-combat focused either.

Neither one of us has anything like an objective measure, so let's not have that argument.

The Genre has X + Y. The D&D game engine has X, and doesn't have Y. Thus, the engine does not drive the overall genre well.

If you are not interested in doing the overall genre well, you are arguing with me for nothing. There's more valuable uses for your time than trying to convince me that'd be enough, I assure you.

 

[Umbran]

I think 'real science fiction' here probably means no space magic or force powers.

I think we should not use "real" in this context, because it denigrates some beloved works by implication as "fake".

There's already the terms "hard" and "soft" science fiction, as well as "science fantasy", which can cover the ground pretty well.

Hard SF is where the physics and engineering of reality is usually a dominant bit. Soft SF is where the dominant bits are psychology, sociology, and anthropology. Soft SF will generally allow the physical sciences to be implausible if it builds a frame for highlighting the "soft" sciences. "Science fantasy" is stuff with space wizards.

Andy Weir's The Martian is pretty hard sci-fi. Star Trek is on the soft end of sci-fi. Star Wars is science fantasy.

Both Star Trek, Star Wars can also be considered Space Opera, which is less about how plausible the science/tech is, and more about the theme, scope, and level of melodrama in the story.

 

[Don Durito]

I think we should not use "real" in this context, because it denigrates some beloved works by implication as "fake".

Whereas I thought the actual worry it that it's imprecise and led to confusion hence my attempt to reduce what I believed to be the confusion. In any case. If you're following the context it's obvious it wasn't my term.

 

[Umbran]

Whereas I thought the actual worry it that it's imprecise and led to confusion hence my attempt to reduce what I believed to be the confusion. In any case. If you're following the context it's obvious it wasn't my term.

So, I don't care whose it is. The point is not to hunt down the original perpetrator and castigate them. I'm just offering already extant alternatives that are documented out there and people can use.

 

[Stormonu]

I think with bounded accuracy, a 5E sci-fi system could work, but it wouldn't be my preference. Any sort of class system and especially the skill system would need a major overhaul.

Overall, I think a pure skill system would work a lot better - Fate, Alternity, WEG Star Wars, FASERIP Gamma World, Star Frontiers are all much better systems. A lot of modernish stories are about the right skills at the right time or being skill specialists, and 5E's anemic "Jack of All Trades" covers-everything-yet-nothing skill system works against that.

But it's likely WotC would want to stay within a d20 system to reduce the appearance of learning of whole new ruleset.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I am too.

Then you seem to have missed the thread that runs through the whole (huge) book, where Paul learns to survive, then understand, then master the power of the planet, until at the climax of the story he uses that power to defeat his enemies.

Neither one of us has anything like an objective measure, so let's not have that argument.

The Genre has X + Y. The D&D game engine has X, and doesn't have Y. Thus, the engine does not drive the overall genre well.

I've played more Traveller and FASA Star Trek than I have D&D. Both games are less combat focused than D&D. In Star Trek the whole point is to resolve issues without resorting to combat. And you know what? Both resolve social situations in exactly the same way as 5e: through role-play and the occasional skill role when the outcome is uncertain. It works just fine. I've never played one of these games with fancy-dancy rules for resolving social situations, but it sounds to me like the rules are replacing the actual role-playing.

If 5e is lacking anywhere, it's in the player vs environment survival stuff.

If you are not interested in doing the overall genre well, you are arguing with me for nothing. There's more valuable uses for your time than trying to convince me that'd be enough, I assure you.

D&D 5e is fun. Pseudo-medieval is tired. I want D&D in Space (but with the magic actually reskinned to space magic). Not a full blown serious SF game. I already own that game.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The Genre has X + Y. The D&D game engine has X, and doesn't have Y. Thus, the engine does not drive the overall genre well.

This doesn’t actually work, because D&D doesn't lack Y, it just doesn’t cover by way of prescribed and detailed mechanics, but instead a basic framework for improvisation (ability checks and proficiencies).

 

[teitan]

The idea that "d20 won't do sci-fi" is just silly, short sighted and demonstrably wrong. We have multiple published examples of it working just fine over the course of the last 20 years, and innumerable private anecdotal examples from folks' home campaigns.

yeah and... Starfinder.