D&D 5E Is Treasure and Magic Items Important To You?

[Kurotowa]

The importance of money depends very much on how many of the PC's goals can be accomplished with it. If the campaign premise is about a band of third children and orphans who have embarked on a dangerous career of treasure hunting and monster slaying to make their fortunes, then money is hugely important. If, however, you're a band of renown heroes who have friends and favors in high places thanks to a series of dramatic world saving adventures, and your main concerns are thwarting evil conspiracies and demon lords, then simple money may not hold much appeal.

As for magic items, particularly ones that aren't of the simple "numbers get bigger" sort, how important they are depends a lot on your character. If you're not a spellcaster and not planning to multiclass, then aside from the rare ASI you'll find your character advancement very much locked in from an early point. For those sorts of PCs, your magic item selection is the main axis for character customization and personalization at higher level. A signature magic weapon or mobility item can do a lot to make your PC distinctive or unlock new tactical options.

Now, you don't have to do that. I hear tell that a DM can do a lot to spice things up by breaking out the Blessings and Boons options from the DMG. But I think it touches on the recent debates about martials vs casters when we consider which classes are more dependent on magic items for utility and versatility than others.

 

[Charlaquin]

Treasure, as in gold and valuables that are only useful for converting into gold, is only as valuable to me as the things I can spend it on. Which means in most 5e campaigns, it’s worthless to me. Unless I’m playing a character who uses heavy armor, in which case it’s valuable until I can afford a set of full plate and worthless thereafter.

Magic items, I do care about. They’re cool, they make my character stronger, they often have fun abilities. I like them. I do wish there was more emphasis on interesting abilities instead of just raw numerical bonuses, but they’re still pretty cool.

ideally, you would be able to convert magic items you don’t want into gold, and gold into magic items you do want. Then both would be valuable and desirable. Of course, I understand not wanting magic marts ruining the feel of magic items, making them commonplace and not special. It’s a fine line to walk, but I think well worth trying to find the balance that works for your party.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I was just talking about this in an OSR thread, but the longer I game the more I'm interested in rekindling the idea that the powers that your character has arise from your class, your ability scores, your feats, your ancestry, and your magic items.

I think the end section on Matt Colville's video "No" explains my feelings very well:


Skip to 14:03 if it doesn't do so.

That idea of having your character's abilities defined by what you do in game instead of just the choices you as a player make while staring at the PHB is fundamental to D&D as a game, to me. It's what makes your character unique. It's how you carry the adventures you've had with your PC.

I'm really at a point where I'm kind of done with attunement. It doesn't serve my purpose anymore. It would be like making a character pick only three class abilities that they could use each day, and the rest would be unavailable. That's insane! Yes, spells do that, but you get quite a lot of spells to prepare (unless you're a Sorcerer). Further, magic items are rewards! They're supposed to be a benefit! They shouldn't just disappear because you got a new one. That's like saying you didn't catch the murderer in Waterdeep anymore because you also rescued the Duke's heir and you can only benefit from one of those. I mean, what?

The most infuriating play experience I've had with 5e -- the only one that has surpassed the frustration of playing a short rest Fighter in a party of 4 characters that recover abilities only on long rests -- has been having in my possession a ring of jumping and never being able to use it because I had to keep the sword of awakening (correction: sword of warning), ring of protection, and amulet of health attuned instead. Those three items always had benefits every adventuring day, and the ring rarely came up. Every time it would've come up, I got to feel like a fool because I picked the boring good reward instead of the fun, creative one. It's not cool to make your players choose between something fun and something good. That's like a Sophie's choice. Do you want to have fun playing D&D, or do you want your character to be good?

Games are often described as, "a series of interesting or meaningful choices," and while I agree with that sentiment, that doesn't mean that every choice necessarily improves the game or that more choices make a better game. Furthermore, I think the choices made at the time you take an action are more interesting than those you make in preparation. A choice informed by the situation carries more weight than one made at dawn.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not real interested in magic items causing power creep. I think a +1 magical bonus should be about as rare as a +2 or +3 sword used to be, a magical +2 bonus should be about as rare as a +4 sword, and a +3 sword is basically an artifact or relic. I also don't want magic items that are just longsword, +1 or elven chain wherever that could be avoided. That's super boring. Magic items should all feel unique, because they're all uniquely made. I've gone so far in some campaigns as to give my PCs magic items or boons that give them, in effect, a brand new subclass worth of abilities. I want magic items that give new abilities, not merely make you better at everything you do.

I just don't want a player to sit down session 0 and say, "This is what my PC will look like at level 20." That's just anathema to the idea of D&D to me. The idea that your character will not develop over the course of the campaign rather than be pre-defined on a spreadsheet before you've even met in a tavern? Now, I definitely like that players get to choose some abilities on their own. I want them to get the level of control the PHB gives them. But I want rewards and magic items to be curve balls and major boons.

As far as gold, I don't really care. Once the PCs have enough money to afford full plate, they're at the end game as far as equipment progression. You can give out vast sums of gold without any consequences.

 

[jgsugden]

Coins, Gems, Jewelry and Artwork doesn't get much love from me. I generally say things like, "There are 275 GP worth of coins and small gems" once the PCs get to 5th level and have the resources to move stuff around.

Magic items are a big deal in my games, however. Roughly half of the magic items come from the DMG or other WotC books, but the other half tend to be a little bit more powerful homebrew items that are more iconic for the characters. This gives them significance rather than just being another tool.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Treasure, as in gold and valuables that are only useful for converting into gold, is only as valuable to me as the things I can spend it on. Which means in most 5e campaigns, it’s worthless to me. Unless I’m playing a character who uses heavy armor, in which case it’s valuable until I can afford a set of full plate and worthless thereafter.

Yeah for a long time I tried to give PCs things to spend gold on in the form of special materials, hiring crafts folk to work on crafting jobs while they adventure and other hireling expenses, strongholds and businesses, buying land, investing in people and businesses and towns, etc, but I’m finding that actually tracking the gold for that sort of thing is awful gameplay. I’d rather abstract it somehow into macro resource points that you can spend.

1 macrocoin pays a single skilled hireling for a season of work. etc

Magic items, I do care about. They’re cool, they make my character stronger, they often have fun abilities. I like them. I do wish there was more emphasis on interesting abilities instead of just raw numerical bonuses, but they’re still pretty cool.

ideally, you would be able to convert magic items you don’t want into gold, and gold into magic items you do want. Then both would be valuable and desirable. Of course, I understand not wanting magic marts ruining the feel of magic items, making them commonplace and not special. It’s a fine line to walk, but I think well worth trying to find the balance that works for your party.

My ideal would be more that no PC ever has a magic item they don’t want, because their magic items are specific to them, but yeah I’m all for that or a 4e style “break it down into residuum and use it to make what you do want” system.

 

[Cadence]

My ideal would be more that no PC ever has a magic item they don’t want, because their magic items are specific to them,

In the last game I played in, this worked out because of the way the quest we were on (for the gods, time travel,...) made it feel like we should find things just for us.

In one game I was a player in there was always exactly one item that was perfect for each player. It felt way too gamey for me. So in the game I run for my son I mix the generally useful with the random with the specifically useful. Not everyone gets something they really want every time, but they all eventually do.

 

[Shiroiken]

I like magic items that do cool things, not some much ones that do more numbers. I dont miss wealth by level expectations.

Totally! One of the most memorable 5E magic items we've seen was a dwarven training hammer. It was a warhammer that would speak encouragement upon hitting a target ("a fine hit," "well done," etc), which was lovingly taken by the dwarf fighter. In the next campaign, whenever the dwarf cleric would hit with a weapon, someone would usually call out "a fine hit" in homage to that item.

Coins, Gems, Jewelry and Artwork doesn't get much love from me. I generally say things like, "There are 275 GP worth of coins and small gems" once the PCs get to 5th level and have the resources to move stuff around.

I'm the opposite. I give out more copper than silver, and more silver than gold, since those coins should be more common. I have a table I use for gem that gives a modifier to the value based on size and cut quality, making each gem at least somewhat unique. I like to detail out different types of jewelry and art objects, because once you have enough wealth to buy everything you need mechanically, this is the kind of stuff the character usually want.

I know most players don't care, but when I play this is the kind of stuff I care about. Whenever we find loot, I try to keep as many gems, jewelry and art objects as I can as part of my share. I also make sure to carry some copper and silver, allowing me to offer tips and payments without extravagance (which is what dropping a few gold would be for the average NPC). I like this kind of minutia.

 

[tetrasodium]

the 2e dmg had a good section about the importance of treasure & magic items on page 115 that is just as true today as it was then. Interesting treasure & magic items are important over the long term. It doesn't matter how cool you describe a long who cares worth 73gp, what matters is the cool & interesting things you can put that 73gp towards. You can't do anything with that 73gp if there is no room to do anything meaningful through expending it left. Systems that do a good job of making money worthless tend to sidestep the specific coin/dollar/monetary unit value so the instead of arguing over if the price tag is 200gp or whatever it can be an interesting interaction. Fate core page 204 has a good section on it

Spoiler: from fate core 204

"Though it may seem counter-intuitive, we find that creating minutiae
like that detracts from the verisimilitude of the game in play. As soon as
you establish a detail like, “Great Physique can dead lift a car for five sec-
onds,” then you’re cutting out a lot of the variability that real life allows.
Adrenaline and other factors allow people to reach beyond their normal
physical limits or fall short of them—you can’t factor every one of those
things in without having it take up a large amount of focus at the table.
It becomes a thing for people to discuss and even argue about, rather than
participating in the scene.
It’s also boring. If you decide that a Fair (+2) Resources can buy anything
that’s 200 gold pieces or less, then you’ve removed a great deal of potential
for tension and drama. Suddenly, every time you have a Resources-based
problem, it’s going to hinge on the question of whether or not the cost is
200 gold pieces, rather than whatever the point of the scene is. It also turns
everything into a simple pass/fail situation, which means you don’t really
have a good reason to roll the skill at all. And again, this is not realistic—
when people spend money, it’s not about the raw dollar amount as much as
it is a question of what someone can presently afford.
Remember, a skill roll is a narrative tool, meant to answer the following
question: “Can I solve X problem using Y means, right now?” When you
get an unexpected result, use your sense of realism and drama to explain and
justify it, using our guidelines above. “Oh, you failed that Resources roll to
bribe the guard? Guess you spent just a bit more at the tavern last night than
you thought... wait, why is your belt pouch gone? And who’s that shady
character walking a little too quickly just past the line of guards? Did he just
wink at you? That bastard... now what do you do?”

The same goes for magic items. In order for a magic item to be interesting there needs to be room in the system for it to have some mechanical impact , the players need to be able to plausibly envision a situation where it can let them be cool, and the character needs to be capable of using it. 5e maes those conditions difficult due to bounded accuracy alongside the removal of anything but attunement slots that could limit them (ie like the old body slots & affinities allowed). Without all three of those things in reasonable degrees you run into a spectrum that ranges from the snide comments & cynicism mentioned on 2e dmg115 to trying very desperately to make a game walk a very difficult narrow line of repeatedly finding something else to regularly grab the interest & imaginations of the majority of your group often enough to counter the expectation that there is very little if any chance they will find interesting "loot".

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In the last game I played in, this worked out because of the way the quest we were on (for the gods, time travel,...) made it feel like we should find things just for us.

In one game I was a player in there was always exactly one item that was perfect for each player. It felt way too gamey for me. So in the game I run for my son I mix the generally useful with the random with the specifically useful. Not everyone gets something they really want every time, but they all eventually do.

Yeah if I’m going to have each PC have an individualized item, it’s gonna be an heirloom, or something destined for them, or made for them as a gift, or something they craft or commission.

Totally! One of the most memorable 5E magic items we've seen was a dwarven training hammer. It was a warhammer that would speak encouragement upon hitting a target ("a fine hit," "well done," etc), which was lovingly taken by the dwarf fighter. In the next campaign, whenever the dwarf cleric would hit with a weapon, someone would usually call out "a fine hit" in homage to that item.

Hell yeah. Stuff like that rules.

I'm the opposite. I give out more copper than silver, and more silver than gold, since those coins should be more common. I have a table I use for gem that gives a modifier to the value based on size and cut quality, making each gem at least somewhat unique. I like to detail out different types of jewelry and art objects, because once you have enough wealth to buy everything you need mechanically, this is the kind of stuff the character usually want.

I know most players don't care, but when I play this is the kind of stuff I care about. Whenever we find loot, I try to keep as many gems, jewelry and art objects as I can as part of my share. I also make sure to carry some copper and silver, allowing me to offer tips and payments without extravagance (which is what dropping a few gold would be for the average NPC). I like this kind of minutia.

I love that. When I’m a player, I love to do stuff like converting coinage into wearable wealth, and “bank” wealth by purchasing art items I can sell or trade later if needed, and keeping them in my home or steongnhold or tower or whatever.

 

[ph0rk]

Depends on the table, really. They aren’t necessary for most concepts I come up with, but if some particularly powerful stuff gets doled out, there needs to be something for everyone, when there isn’t, thats weird (because it is, first and foremost, a game, story is secondary to that).

DMs that hand stuff out without a good understanding of character concepts at their table can create just as big a feeling of imbalance as ones that skip a character entirely in terms of items.