D&D General Drow in early D&D

[Yaarel]

Honestly, I actually dislike this because I feel it is just the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs, and then pretending the new rearrangement is magically better.

It reminds me of a Japanese term for replacing an old word that is now considered bad with a newer word. And then eventually the newer word is considered bad and replaced with another newer word. And so on.

Being "speciesist" isn't any better than being "racist." They're both nasty and prejudiced.

That's why I get so irritated when people complain about "race" for this and then think "species" is any better.

All that literally does is just slap a new coat of paint on the same broken wall you could say. It doesn't change anything.

But some words are more disruptive than others. Consider marketing.

Can you imagine ANY other product using the word "race"?

Seriously!

 

[lall]

In my experience, I never go the vibe that Grey Elf et al were arrogant. Mainly they were reclusive.

Maybe the Forgotten Realms made Sun Elf explicitly pretentious and arrogant, but I didnt play FR. And even for the Sun Elf, they came across as trying to reunify the Elves, and this sense were highly tolerant of the diversity.

2e Book of Elves: “The grey elves view themselves as the protectors of good in the world, but they will stir from their mountains and meadows to protect the “lesser” races only when they are faced with great evil. Grey elves act much like human knights - supercilious and condescending, full of their own importance...They are often haughty, disdaining contact with most others, including all other elves save grey elves.” It goes on to say they aren’t exactly bigoted towards other races but more concerned about the purity of the elven line.

 

[wellis]

Why did 2E naughty word on both knights and Grey Elves so hard?

Were a lot of stereotypes about elves and paladins created in 2E, and players kept on pushing these stereotypes even through multiple editions where these issues weren't around anymore?

 

[Yaarel]

2e Book of Elves: “The grey elves view themselves as the protectors of good in the world, but they will stir from their mountains and meadows to protect the “lesser” races only when they are faced with great evil. Grey elves act much like human knights - supercilious and condescending, full of their own importance...They are often haughty, disdaining contact with most others, including all other elves save grey elves.” It goes on to say they aren’t exactly bigoted towards other races but more concerned about the purity of the elven line.

"... the purity of the elven line."

LOL!

Shocking. Even more shocking, how the people of that era could think that "race purity" was somehow better than being "condescending".

 

[Blue Orange]

It reminds me of a Japanese term for replacing an old word that is now considered bad with a newer word. And then eventually the newer word is considered bad and replaced with another newer word. And so on.

There is actually an English term for that: euphemism treadmill. In German apparently they're Zugketten.

 

[jasper]

lies lies lies lies. Grey Elves are just elf folk in the retirement homes with 2d6 *10 years to live. And you still get on their lawns and don't remember during the holidays.

 

[Sithlord]

Eventually the word or term they replace it with will become the bad word.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Eh magic breaks rules. And it fits with many stories of folklore and myth. I would use the term species in a medieval or mythological setting. I would call them what the ancients and classical writers did, race.

this is exactly what happens. Eventually the word or term they replace it with will become the bad word.

You misunderstand. It's really difficult to make the argument for "We are humans and those are just animals" (a speciesism argument), when you can procreate amongst each other. Doesn't actually matter if they are different species or not, because they behave less like different species and more like different cultural groups in real-life.

Elrond: Humans are like animals, I'm so glad we left Middle Earth for the Westlands.
Random nice elf: Isn't your daughter married to a human? Don't they have kids?
Elrond: Yeah well that's different, he's got a little elvish blood in his family line.
Nice elf: Elrond you sound racist, not gonna lie.

 

[the Jester]

I never understood the whole "haughty we are better at everything elves" thing. If they were so much better at literally everything they would be running the world in all these campaign settings.

Not if a group of 1,000 elves averages 5 children per century.

 

[Sithlord]

You misunderstand. It's really difficult to make the argument for "We are humans and those are just animals" (a speciesism argument), when you can procreate amongst each other. Doesn't actually matter if they are different species or not, because they behave less like different species and more like different cultural groups in real-life.

Elrond: Humans are like animals, I'm so glad we left Middle Earth for the Westlands.
Random nice elf: Isn't your daughter married to a human? Don't they have kids?
Elrond: Yeah well that's different, he's got a little elvish blood in his family line.
Nice elf: Elrond you sound racist, not gonna lie.

I do understand. I’m just not playing science book Darwinism. You can disagree me with me and that’s cool. But i do understand the argument. I just disagree with it. This ain’t a sci-fi rpg. Animals talk. Gods make races in their image or for their desires.