TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

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Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

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TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

​

 

[Charlaquin]

Honest question, because I am a bit confused about the ins and outs of this kind of thing.

I understand that using a person's dead name is offensive and insulting in most contexts, but in a case like this, where you're clarifying who someone is in terms of products with that old dead name on it, is it still offensive? Or, for instance, if you knew Jenelle back when she was Jean, would saying something like "This is Jenelle, who you used to know as Jean" for the sake of clarify be offensive?
I kind of feel like these are the kinds of situations where it is appropriate to use a dead name for clarity, but am absolutely aware that I'm not the one who gets to decide when it's appropriate.

Similarly, do Caitlyn Jenner's old sports records refer to her by that name, or by her dead name? Is this a thing where we should change the records to reflect her identity as Caitlyn, or should they stay to reflect who she was at the time? In the future, when some kid is looking this stuff up in the books, what, if anything, should be included to make the whole situation clear?

Asking with honest respect and an intention to learn, not trying to stir anything up here.

If nobody asked for clarification, it’s just kind of unnecessary. Sure, if someone who’s familiar with Jenelle’s work but didn’t know she’s trans were to ask, “wait, who’s Janelle Jaquays?,” it would be acceptable to clarify “she used to write under the name ****.” But if nobody asked, it’s kind of impolite to go out of your way to say it. It just calls unnecessary attention to an identity the person probably isn’t comfortable being associated with.

As for Caitlyn Jenner, I don’t know what her sports records say, but I would say that they should use her chosen name, unless she has requested otherwise (which she may have done, I don’t really know).

 

[Bolares]

We could talk about the kickstarter he hasn't fulfilled for 5 years and which he made some inexplicable comments about?
We could talk about the copyright and trademark issues surrounding this topic?
We could talk about Star Frontiers?
We could talk about in general the Public Relations issues surrounding Indie companies and this companies general PR problems without getting into the political specifics of them?
We could talk about the Giantlands game they mention as their first product?
We could talk about how all this relates to the prior TSR company with the Top Secret game?
We could talk about how all this relates to the prior Gygax magazine?
We could talk about what all the prior original TSR members left are all doing these days, gaming-wise?
We could talk about all the things we'd want to see, as consumers, coming from a new TSR?
We could talk about who we wished had started a new TSR other than these guys?

I do think there are a lot of things we could be talking about which are not about the politics of this thing. Not that the politics of this thing should not be discussed. But I do think it's a rather narrow (and somewhat beaten into the ground at this point) aspect of a much larger overall set of topics we could be discussing.

Aren't we discussing a lot of those, or have discussed on previous threads, or even new, specific threads about any of those topics be oppened?

 

[Bardic Dave]

Is that supposed to link to something?

“Yes”
(I think the joke is that you tell him he’s “blogging”, so he’s got somewhere to rant, but in actuality it’s just a word doc stored locally, so he can’t continue to embarrass himself).

EDIT: or maybe not, I don’t know.
EDIT2: I was right! Apparently, it’s a The Office reference.

 

[Mistwell]

Aren't we discussing a lot of those, or have discussed on previous threads, or even new, specific threads about any of those topics be oppened?

We've certainly tried. But every time it seems the number of politics-themed comments so outnumbers discussion of those other topics that they get drowned in the noise. We've seen a lot of new people try to enter the conversation and step slowly away.

 

[CleverNickName]

In D&D, new players often ask what the difference between Intelligence and Wisdom is. One of the better answers I've heard:

"Intelligence is knowing the answer to a question. Wisdom is knowing whether to answer it, or remain silent."

 

[Umbran]

Is any progress being made on those aspects of this topic anymore, given most of these threads are ending with being closed by moderators because the political aspects result in more headed conversations that seem to go in circles?

Most of the other points you raised are related to legal issues we have little information, and even less input on. No "progress" will be made in discussion on them, because we are not legally party to the issues. When someone issues a valid C&D or court case, Morrus will have a new item on it, I am sure.

If you are not interested in this discussion, by all means go take part in other threads. They're still going just fine.

 

[billd91]

We've certainly tried. But every time it seems the number of politics-themed comments so outnumbers discussion of those other topics that they get drowned in the noise. We've seen a lot of new people try to enter the conversation and step slowly away.

Yeah, well, some issues are much more heated than others. Whether if 3SR put out a new version of Star Frontiers is a violation of IP or not is a question of tangential importance to most people. Curiosity at most. Trying to brush off issues about people's identities and their due equal rights gets at their lives.

 

[Dessert Nomad]

I wasn't playing devil's advocate at all. It just seemed to me that someone here was implying Ernie Gygax wanted trans people dead. That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

False claim? You said it yourself on page 12, unless you've edited it?

Trying to draw an equivalence between "I want these people denied human rights and/or dead" and "I hope the guy who wants me denied human rights and/or dead goes out of business" just doesn't stand up to even superficial examination.

I did not, but perhaps you're not familiar with the construct 'and/or'. It doesn't mean 'and', it means that for some it's an 'and', and for others it's 'or'. It is clearly not a claim that 'Ernie Gygax wants trans people dead,' and you're ignoring a lot of context and clarifications that I've already said. By spouting transphobic talking points and refusing to repudiate them, Ernie Gygax is showing his alignment with the people that want trans people denied human rights and/or dead - but that's not making the specific claim "Ernie Gygax wants trans people dead" which you're trying to shift the argument to.

Once an argument has descended into semantics my personal policy is to give one clarification then be done, so I'm not going to comment further on this specific bit of wording.

 

[Remathilis]

No. This is not going to happen, because we are not going to allow it to happen. The OSR was founded upon an ethos: not this sorry display, but upon the belief that D&D belongs to the people who make D&D, and that a good reputation is earned by people who do the work and do their best work so that someone else can do better.

If Ernie could do that, he wouldn't be doing this. The OSR has nothing to fear from him. He still has his seat at the table... and he's still got some good years left in him. I hope he's sincere about doing good work, and I'll have the opportunity to pay him for it.

From your keyboard to Pelor's eyes.

That said, I think the "TSR" brand name has again become radioactive for the time being and as long as TSR3 is 95% bluster and 5% product, its going to be hard to use the term as anything more than a dogwhistle.

 

[Malmuria]

Is that supposed to link to something?

Sorry, it was a poor attempt at humor via a reference from The Office