D&D General UPDATE: this isn't greenlit : Jeff Grubb's Lost Mystara Sourcebook To Be Released

Ex-TSR designer Jeff Grubb wrote a Known World of Mystara sourcebook for AD&D 2E that was sadly never published. But now WotC has given permission for it's release to Shawn Stanley of the Vaults of Pandius website, the Official Mystara Homepage!

Grubb posted on Facebook:

"A long time ago I wrote a project for TSR converting the Known World of Mystara from D&D to AD&D 2nd Edition. Through a tale of woe and intrigue, (link below) that product was never completed, and instead became Karameikos, Kingdom of Adventure.

However, I kept a copy of the unfinished manuscript (well, print-out), and a short while ago, gave it to Shawn Stanley, who runs the Pandius Website. He in turn has cleaned it up a bit, and plans to release it, free, with WotC's blessing, to fans on the website's anniversary.

It is really nice to see this surface after so many years - it is a "Lost Tome" of D&D history, and I hope fans of the setting enjoy it."

He speaks more about the story, and why he left TSR, on his blog.

Mystara is a D&D campaign setting first published in the early 1980s, and was the 'default' setting for D&D for a long time.

Why I left TSR

A couple years back I talked about Stormfront , the TSR world that I never ended up creating. And in the initial entry I said: " Stormfro...

grubbstreet.blogspot.com

Updates from @Dungeonosophy

Jeff Grubb gives an overview of the book on his blog

As for the release date: Shawn Stanley, Webmaster of the Vaults of Pandius, announced (here) that June 27th is the planned release date.

Some people were wondering if Jeff is involved in the release.

I reached out to Shawn Stanley on April 10th:
"Yes I was going to reach out to him with respect to providing some sort of foreword for the release. I had been intending to do so once I had finished the graphic design - but with the release of new news yesterday, I reached out to him yesterday. I also wanted to get his okay for the editing that I had done. But yes, I would think that anything that Jeff wants to write to accompany the document would be a great idea. I do kind of agree that something a little bit less-depressing than the blog posts might be preferable - something to celebrate the release than recall the negative things that had happened during that time."
"I do hope that he will agree."

Jeff also responded to me on April 10th:
"Shawn has been in touch with me, and I will be glad to write a brief foreword for the project."

Which will be a fulfillment of Jeff's offer back in 2019:
"If you succeed [with the petition], I will be glad to provide an intro with a less-depressing history of the project."

Note Vaults of Pandius is the Official Mystara Homepage! Given that designation by WotC, back in the 2000s, when Jim Butler was managing fan policy for "other worlds." There's an official agreement and everything. That's why the site is the natural host for this.

UPDATE:
WotC's approval of this sourcebook's release have been premature, i.e. it isn't greenlit.

 

[Sithlord]

Worth a read/listen: Punching Up vs. Punching Down.

Best article I ever read. Everyone should live by those rules. And we should definitely praise the virtues of the Ghengis Kahn and the warfare of the Ming dynasty. They should be exemplars of society. One set of rules for one group and another set for other groups. Got it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Best article I ever read. Everyone should live by those rules. And we should definitely praise the virtues of the Ghengis Kahn and the warfare of the Ming dynasty. They should be exemplars of society. One set of rules for one group and another set for other groups. Got it.

My mistake. I keep thinking you genuinely want to engage in conversation.

 

[Sithlord]

My mistake. I keep thinking you genuinely want to engage in conversation.

I am in complete agreement with you

 

[Umbran]

So we shall make sure all villainy societies resemble American/euro societies. Got it.

Mod Note:
It is entirely unclear what constructive result you felt would come out of this snarkiness.

Next time, make that result clear. If there is no constructive result, then keep your snarkiness to yourself, please and thanks.

 

[Umbran]

I am in complete agreement with you

Mod Note:

Oh, so, you aren't here for conversation. Then you are done here. Please find a place you can be constructive.

 

[The Glen]

I've been working on the Mystara 5E for years now. The setting doesn't translate into 5E well, because it's pretty nuanced as a setting.

Red Steel would need a complete rewrite, the legacies are hard to translate mechanically. Plus not sure how new players would handle the 'wear this magic amulet or else you mutate to death' part of Red Steel. The nations are either the Iberian themed baronies, or you've got the Franks and the Celts human nations. Fluffwise it's fine, but the rules would strain 5E's rules light approach.

Hollow World harkens to ancient times with Greeks, Egyptians, and Aztecs as the dominant empires. Heavy restrictions on magic, many spells aren't present and the driving theme about lack of free will and cultural stagnation might rub some the wrong way. On the other hand, lots and lots of dinosaurs.

The Known World has a few problem nations, but for different reasons. Ylaruam was an early attempt at nation-building but left everything outside of history and national government blank. No NPCs, no cities in any detail except a small village, everything was fill in the blank. Interesting concept, but didn't age well because it was the only one of its kind in the series. Ierendi had a lot of 80's pop culture references that aged out. Nine of the ten islands were played straight, but most people only remember the safari island with its fake adventures. Atruaghin is notorious for how incomplete it was. Five different allegories for various tribes, but hardly any real information on them. There's no government, no real NPCs, the nation even gets left out of its own timeline halfway through its own history. The author infamously had an impossible deadline, and the book suffered from it. I had to completely rewrite the entire nation to make it coherent.

The setting isn't going to sit well with some people. People have talked about colonialism but this is a setting where the largest empire on the continent is basically Imperial Rome. The beauty is that in all the different cultures, there is no nation that is a defined bad guy nation. Ethengar might be the villains in Glantri, but they are solid allies of Rockhome. There are villains in each nation, but they don't define the nation. The national stereotypes are of the fantasy versions of the nation. Thyatians are treacherous but practical. Darokinians are profit-driven but generous. Minrothadians are humorless but overachievers.

The setting is popular outside of the US because the gazetteers were translated into so many languages early on. The cultures included tend to be obscure, and the people of those cultures are delighted to have a culture that reflects them. Most of the people I talked to wanted their culture represented as heroic types, even if you had to fudge a bit on the historical accuracy. You do the research, and people will appreciate it. Change something too much and you've moved it away from what people liked about it in the first place.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The beauty is that in all the different cultures, there is no nation that is a defined bad guy nation. Ethengar might be the villains in Glantri, but they are solid allies of Rockhome.

If anything, Glantri and Alphatia were the closest to villainous nations, if only because having a bunch of temperamental living nuclear bombs ruling two nations will make everyone around them very uncomfortable.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I've been working on the Mystara 5E for years now.

I have your previous work and it is great! Thank you.

The beauty is that in all the different cultures, there is no nation that is a defined bad guy nation. Ethengar might be the villains in Glantri, but they are solid allies of Rockhome. There are villains in each nation, but they don't define the nation. The national stereotypes are of the fantasy versions of the nation. Thyatians are treacherous but practical. Darokinians are profit-driven but generous. Minrothadians are humorless but overachievers.

The setting is popular outside of the US because the gazetteers were translated into so many languages early on. The cultures included tend to be obscure, and the people of those cultures are delighted to have a culture that reflects them. Most of the people I talked to wanted their culture represented as heroic types, even if you had to fudge a bit on the historical accuracy. You do the research, and people will appreciate it. Change something too much and you've moved it away from what people liked about it in the first place.

So much this!
It was/is an appreciation of the diversity of cultures and people in humanity's history within a fantasy setting.

 

[The Glen]

If anything, Glantri and Alphatia were the closest to villainous nations, if only because having a bunch of temperamental living nuclear bombs ruling two nations will make everyone around them very uncomfortable.

Alphatia had to be taken down a notch because as written it could curb stomp everybody. That was a huge problem with sending them into the hollow world. You've got a nation of high powered Wizards wielding unheard of spells with a modern army and air force against nations trapped in the bronze age. Now they are portrayed as being still powerful but the Wizards are too wrapped up in their own activities to be bothered working together.

Glantri would be more dangerous but the nation is so dysfunctional as a whole they aren't a threat outside their borders. The only thing they hate more than each other is everybody else. It's called Fantasy Yugoslavia for a reason.

 

[hopeless]

How would this need to be rewritten to make it fit as a setting?