D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Dannyalcatraz]

Y’all…can we take a break from the attempted mind reading & conclusion jumping?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Here is where your posts can be a bit grating.

I think halflings are fine. I think there is a place for a pastoral, small race and I am content with it. My players are.content with it. From a business standpoint, I think it would horrible for WOTC to get rid of the "hobbit" like race. A lot of gamers probably started playing this game because of LOTR.

However, you think I am somehow fine with them "fading into the background" and vanishing. I disagree with your stance and now you somehow hint that I am wrong and that my attitudes will lead to the extinction of halflings.

Again, there is a difference between "you do it your way" and "you do it my way". When pressing for official changes to rules, presentation, or whatever, it is the latter.

A pastoral small race? Sure. There is a place for that.

A pastoral small race that never interacts with the wider world, who has never been the focus of any adventure, whose greatest trait people seem to like is "they aren't important"? I think we can make that a subrace and have other subraces who explore other ideas.

And, 30 yrs ago? Yeah, a lot of gamers might have started because of LoTR. Today? No. LoTR is not the driving force behind getting people into DnD anymore. Hasn't been for at least two decades. WoW, Game of Thrones, Critical Role, HarmonQuest, and a handful of other sources of fantasy entertainment are far more responsible for the modern influx of DnD players.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I wouldn’t do ALL ferrous metals, no! As you say, it would be too common a weakness to be playable unless you significantly boost their powers.

“Cold iron” would be some kind of special material, either by nature or ritual. Perhaps the “cold” would be the cold of the void of space- IOW, another name for meteoric steel, aka starmetal.

Yeah, I figured.

But then classic scenes like a powerful fey lord being injured by a common nail wouldn't work anymore. Which is the type of stuff that I think of when I think of the trope associated with the allergy.

I do like the idea of them not quite liking things from space though.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The difference is that you seem to be insisting that halflings must assume a more complex role in the official game in order to be acceptable.

The counter argument is that it's fine to leave them the way they are in the published material because anyone is free to add as much complicated lore as they want for the purposes of an isolated game.

Yes, anyone can add new lore to the game. Or remove lore. Therefore you could remove complex lore and revert them back. That is a non-argument. It works both ways.

But, a lot of DMs and tables don't end up adding to the lore. They want to run the lore provided by the company they are buying the material from, and right now WoTC is not providing the same level of material for halflings as they are other races. But, they laud halflings as being one of the four most important races in the game.

And personally, while I could go and change their lore and all that, that doesn't help move the game forward for the next person who buys a PHB. It doesn't help me get anything interesting from the company that I could add or twist for my own purposes.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But, a lot of DMs and tables don't end up adding to the lore. They want to run the lore provided by the company they are buying the material from, and right now WoTC is not providing the same level of material for halflings as they are other races. But, they laud halflings as being one of the four most important races in the game.

I don't really pay much attention to published settings, but don't at least Eberron and Exandria have pretty decent amount of halfling lore?

 

[Chaosmancer]

I asked you for a specific phrase where I ascribed motives to you. You are unable to do so.

The phrase you claim where I'm ascribing a motive to you literally doesn't mention you. It would only be talking about

That's the original quote which was replied to be people who are explicitly not you and yet your claim is that I'm claiming your motives. Neither English nor logic work that way.

I'm competent enough that if I wanted to talk to you about your motives I would quote you and reference you. I am not a complete buffoon who is incapable of using these tools, nor I am the complete idiot you make me out to be.

The phrase was quite clear. It was this one. "Those that only object to halfling lore because it's "too human" merely hate halflings and aren't having an authentic debate."

Now, maybe what you meant is that those who object to halfling lore only on that basis and have no other complaints aren't having an authentic debate. But, not a single person on this thread qualifies under that reading. It would be like me saying "Everyone who claims halflings drink Faygo isn't having an authentic debate", no one has ever said that, and so my post would be nonsense.

The fact that also, in the post you quoted, Hussar says that they also believe halfling lore to be too human, then you attempt to turn around and say that if you wanted to ascribe a motive to Hussar, you would have quoted them, is also very strange. Because the person you quoted in the post at question was Minigiant. So, are you trying to say you were only ascribing motives to Minigiant, while also using a vague pronoun like "those that" which implies multiple individuals?

Also, I will note, Hussar never called you a buffoon or an idiot or said that you couldn't understand English. What he did say is that your claim of "any reading of natural english" was suspect, because your post was quite clear in its intentions and I'd struggle to find a way to read it that isn't ascribing motives of hatred to anyone who is claiming that halflings are presented as too human.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I don't really pay much attention to published settings, but don't at least Eberron and Exandria have pretty decent amount of halfling lore?

I don't know on Exandria. I've only skimmed the copies I have. Eberron has two sets of halfling lore. City halflings are basically just humans, while the Talenta halflings aren't. But there also isn't a lot of detail on Talenta halflings. I'd have to go and find more work by Keith Baker to be sure what all he did.

And yes, Keith Baker is an amazing world builder who I have massive respect for, but just because Keith Baker made Eberron really cool and interesting doesn't mean that WoTC is off the hook for literally everywhere else.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I don't know on Exandria. I've only skimmed the copies I have. Eberron has two sets of halfling lore. City halflings are basically just humans, while the Talenta halflings aren't. But there also isn't a lot of detail on Talenta halflings. I'd have to go and find more work by Keith Baker to be sure what all he did.

And yes, Keith Baker is an amazing world builder who I have massive respect for, but just because Keith Baker made Eberron really cool and interesting doesn't mean that WoTC is off the hook for literally everywhere else.

But it means that people who are unable or don't want to come up with their own lore still have an official setting with decent halfling lore. I still feel that most of the complaints are effectively about Forgotten Realms being bland and not about halflings in general.

 

[Oofta]

Personally I find the basic lore for all races as listed in the PHB to be pretty bland and boring. Tieflings have next to nothing, other than "infernal heritage" and "tend to be criminals". Dragonborn are "born of dragons". Going beyond the PHB, genasi are when a daddy genie and a mama human love each other very much ... on and on.

If we were to base removing races based on generic lore provided we wouldn't have many races at all. Why single out halflings? At least we get more than tabaxi who's lore is that they're from someplace mysterious and they're anthropomorphic cats.

 

[Hussar]

But it means that people who are unable or don't want to come up with their own lore still have an official setting with decent halfling lore. I still feel that most of the complaints are effectively about Forgotten Realms being bland and not about halflings in general.

As I see it, there's two issues with that.

1. I'm not about to start buying Eberron books just for halfling lore. That's not a reasonable to think that I should. So, regardless of how good that lore is, loads of people will never see it because, well, as popular as Eberron is, it's not Forgotten Realms and it's not part of the core D&D materials. I remember Erik Mona talking about this sort of thing in Dungeon magazine (back in the print days) where adding a specific setting to any Dungeon magazine basically halfed sales.

2. How setting specific is that lore? I honestly don't know. Halflings in Eberron are the dino riders right? That's a pretty specific bit of lore to add to a setting. Very cool, sure, but, not exactly the easiest thing to transplant.

Now, @Oofta, you bring up Tabaxi. That's not really a fair comparison at all though is it? Tabaxi have virtually no history in the game and appear in, what, one supplement? Expecting them to have gobs of lore is a bit of a stretch. I will certainly agree with you on the Dragonborn and Tielfling thing though. But, personally, I think the reason is that WOtC was so nervous about drawing any attention to these "4e races" in the early years of the edition, that they've basically never gotten much loving at all.