D&D 5E Is Paladine Bahamut? Is Takhisis Tiamat? Fizban's Treasury Might Reveal The Answer!

According to WotC's James Wyatt, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons introduces a new cosmology for dragon gods, where the same beings, including Fizban, echo across various D&D campaign settings with alternate versions of themselves (presumably like Paladine/Bahamut, or Takhisis/Tiamat). Also... the various version can merge into one single form.

Takhisis is the five-headed dragon god of evil from the Dragonlance setting. Paladine is the platinum dragon god of good (and also Fizban's alter-ego).

Additionally, the book will contain psychic gem dragons, with stats for all four age categories of the five varieties (traditionally there are Amethyst, Crystal, Emerald, Sapphire, and Topaz), plus Dragonborn characters based on metallic, chromatic, and gem dragons.

D&D 5E - Check out Fizban's Alternate Cover!

WotC's James Wyatt talked to Polygon about Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, which also revealed the alternate cover, which you can only get from hobby stores. https://www.enworld.org/threads/fizbans-treasury-the-dragon-book-now-has-a-description-and-a-feat.681399/

www.enworld.org

D&D 5E - Fizban's Treasury: The Dragon Book Now Has A Description... And A Feat

Courtesy of Amazon, we now have a description for Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, the October D&D hardcover. The book introduces gem dragons, dragon-themed player options, and plenty of draconic lore! This joins September's The Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and November's Strixhaven: Curriculum of...

www.enworld.org

 

[Parmandur]

No problem! Yeah I think it's important to remember that although big corporations (like Disney or WotC) are motivated first and primarily by "What makes money," corporations are also filled by individuals. And individuals are not always primarily motivated by money, and instead have other concerns like actually wanting to make quality content because it makes them look good... and because they want to!

So you can have a big budget project like Lord of the Rings, funded by a big corporation with the intent to make loads of money, but also have it be a passion project of Peter Jackson wanting to create an iconic piece of media. And then later you can see some of that passion has dissipated, and you get the not-at-all iconic Hobbit films.

IE, I view it as a mixed bag.

What, a balanced opinion? Don't you know that this is the Internet??

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

This. All of DnD shouldn't have a unified theory of philosophical influence.

Why? Why does your desire trump the desire of others? I’m mean it can be whatever you want in your game.

 

[Parmandur]

Why? Why does your desire trump the desire of others? I’m mean it can be whatever you want in your game.

Exactly! It's easier to take out than to add.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Dragonlance uses the same basic cosmology as all the other D&D settings

No it doesn't. Paladine lives in the Dome of Creation, Takhisis in the Abyss. The divison is between good and evil, there is no real law/chaos axis to the setting.

This is the layout you get when Dragonlance is not shackled to the Great Wheel of Greyhawk and allowed to follow its own fiction.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No problem! Yeah I think it's important to remember that although big corporations (like Disney or WotC) are motivated first and primarily by "What makes money," corporations are also filled by individuals. And individuals are not always primarily motivated by money, and instead have other concerns like actually wanting to make quality content because it makes them look good... and because they want to!

So you can have a big budget project like Lord of the Rings, funded by a big corporation with the intent to make loads of money, but also have it be a passion project of Peter Jackson wanting to create an iconic piece of media. And then later you can see some of that passion has dissipated, and you get the not-at-all iconic Hobbit films.

IE, I view it as a mixed bag.

Fair enough. One thing I'd note is that Warner doesn't own Lord of The Rings, they have the rights to make movies and video games with it. The ownership is still solidly in the hands of the Tolkien Estate. I personally think it should be public domain by now, but that's only tangentially related to the other thing.

Star Wars is a fun example, because the new movies have some bright points, but very few people love all three movies, far as I can tell, and I doubt anyone (even Abrams, Johnson, Kennedy, etc) would argue that the trilogy would have been worse if Lucas had given it to Filoni to make with Lucas' general oversight. Hell, I'd say that the prequels are better, and I enjoyed the first 2 movies of the sequels and still love the characters introduced, but I'd definitely posit that Lucas would have made a better trilogy. Especially if he learned from the prequels and made sure that he had strong willed editors and such working with him rather than basically doing it all himself.

The point of which is, sure, I love the MCU movies. But I don't think it's true that they are better than what would be made if all of those characters that are older than 30 years old were in the public domain, and the remainder were owned by their creators. Very different, sure, but not better.

In fact, if not for the consolidation of IP, hollywood wouldn't be able to just constantly dip into the same IP all the time, because others would have the same access to most of it, so they'd have to try to present something audiences wouldn't have watched twice last year from 2 different studios.

 

[Parmandur]

I didn't comment on the purpose for which Plato used the allegory originally, so I've idea what you're even talking about. Like, I know the history you're trying to explain to me, but I'm completely blank on it's relevance to what I said.

You made the connection between the Allegory of the Cave and xenophobia, which I admittedly thought was completely random, so I guess I just do not know what you were trying to say.

Seems more like the point is "stop saying you thnk the thing I like is bad" in reference to thing that...people are going to have differing opinions on the quality of. I'm not yucking anyone's yum if I say that the prequel Star Wars trilogy made the Force less interesting.

I mean, that is technically yucking other people's yum, even if it is a correct cinematic opinion. It would certainly be yucking other people's yum to say so in certain contexts.

No, and your forced attempt at a reversal is completely unconvincing. I get to dislike a thing you like. Meanwhile, the use of the idea that "this group of people over here just don't know how the cosmos actually works, and are ignorant of the nature of god" is a thing that happens in the real world, and at best is a bit of rhetoric heavily associated with violent imperialism and to a lesser extent with classism. The fact that it comes with it's own slur is just...fantastic.

Sure, you don't like it, other's do. Big deal.

In the meantime, the totally official make believe is that Paladine and Bahamut are the same. Or not at a given table. It doesn't matter.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm really uncomfortable arguing with you here, but if we are meaning Canon = Official, then my Star Wars example still holds. The owner of the property decides what is canon material, not its first creator.

I don't agree with that. I mean, Disney can come out tomorrow and say midichlorians are not canon, and despite hating their existence, I would scoff at the attempt. The creator is the one who knows best what is canon and what is not. The only place where I would accept the owner over the creator is when the owner creates new material to expand what we know.

 

[Maxperson]

This was the dumbest aspect of Planescape in 2E. Everyone on Krynn was dumb for believes Takhisis lived in the Abyss rather than Baator, even though in Dragonlance Raistlin went to the Abyss and fought Takhisis there. Both a powerful wizard and god were unaware of where they were?

It was stupid, it added nothing and to see it perpetuated is madness.

Krynn had it's own cosmology and separate planes of existence. The Abyss of Dragonlance is not the Abyss of the Great Wheel.

 

[Parmandur]

Fair enough. One thing I'd note is that Warner doesn't own Lord of The Rings, they have the rights to make movies and video games with it. The ownership is still solidly in the hands of the Tolkien Estate. I personally think it should be public domain by now, but that's only tangentially related to the other thing.

Star Wars is a fun example, because the new movies have some bright points, but very few people love all three movies, far as I can tell, and I doubt anyone (even Abrams, Johnson, Kennedy, etc) would argue that the trilogy would have been worse if Lucas had given it to Filoni to make with Lucas' general oversight. Hell, I'd say that the prequels are better, and I enjoyed the first 2 movies of the sequels and still love the characters introduced, but I'd definitely posit that Lucas would have made a better trilogy. Especially if he learned from the prequels and made sure that he had strong willed editors and such working with him rather than basically doing it all himself.

The point of which is, sure, I love the MCU movies. But I don't think it's true that they are better than what would be made if all of those characters that are older than 30 years old were in the public domain, and the remainder were owned by their creators. Very different, sure, but not better.

In fact, if not for the consolidation of IP, hollywood wouldn't be able to just constantly dip into the same IP all the time, because others would have the same access to most of it, so they'd have to try to present something audiences wouldn't have watched twice last year from 2 different studios.

The new Star Wars material is uneven, but due to corporate backing is coming at a pretty consistent rate. As such, due to the odds if nothing else it has already put out more quality product since 2012 than Lucas did between 1984 and 2012.

 

[Parmandur]

Krynn had it's own cosmology and separate planes of existence. The Abyss of Dragonlance is not the Abyss of the Great Wheel.

That was never consistent, though. Not since the 1980's. It can go either way, depending on what is done with the material.