D&D 5E Disarming spellcasters?

[CleverNickName]

When I hear "players need to bring multiple objects with this rule." I always think "god forbid they bring backup equipment, they might have to start engaging with their GP and carrying capacity!"

EXACTLY.

My wizard uses an arcane focus (wand) instead of spell components...so he carries three foci at all times: one inside each sleeve (secured by a leather bracelet), and a third in his boot.

When I played a cleric, he carried no less than three holy symbols: one around his neck, one on a bracelet, and a third emblazoned on his shield.

 

[Kobold Stew]

(assuming non-magical wands, etc.)

 

[Vyshan]

Broke: ignoring the enemy spellcaster's focus or spell component pouch, and letting him waylay you constantly with spells every single round.

Woke: the rogue darting in and pretending to attack, but actually using Sleight of Hand to steal the enemy's arcane focus or spell component pouch.

Bespoke: the rogue darting in and pretending to attack, but actually using Sleight of Hand to steal the enemy's arcane focus or spell component pouch, and replacing them with counterfeits.

Rogue reaches into the wizard's spell component pouch. Grabs a fistful of small balls made of bat guano and sulfur.

Fireball wizards are on another level.

 

[DNDElise]

Hi,

Maybe it's obvious but... the DMG disarm rule allows knocking a weapon or another item from a target's grasp with an contested ability check (Athletics or Acrobatics). Wizards are notoriously bad at Athletics and probably are not stellar at Acrobatics as well. Is this a valid technique to disarm the focus/component pouch (and using a move action to get away, with the focus taken as part of the move action... a wizard unarmed opportunity attack is worth it) ? Is it within the "grasp" of the spellcaster for disarming purpose? I have never seen my players carrying multiple arcane focus... Would you allow disarming spellcasters at your table? As a player, would you find this tactic unfair?

Edit: since I am the DM, "ask your DM" won't help me. I am just asking if it is "fair" once in a while, to make some fight a little more memorable. I have already had disarming NPCs disarm fighters (once or twice, not every single attack...) but it felt more "expected", maybe because of the name of the rule...

As a DM and regular spell caster, I wouldn't make a regular habit of this because your spell caster may quit the game. I think every once in a while would be ok. Maybe the spell caster's focus is stolen and disappears. Finding it opens up a whole new quest for the team. Maybe during the quest, the spell caster can find new components or learn a new spell for free when the quest is complete as a reward.

 

[ECMO3]

Hi,

Maybe it's obvious but... the DMG disarm rule allows knocking a weapon or another item from a target's grasp with an contested ability check (Athletics or Acrobatics). Wizards are notoriously bad at Athletics and probably are not stellar at Acrobatics as well. Is this a valid technique to disarm the focus/component pouch (and using a move action to get away, with the focus taken as part of the move action... a wizard unarmed opportunity attack is worth it) ? Is it within the "grasp" of the spellcaster for disarming purpose? I have never seen my players carrying multiple arcane focus... Would you allow disarming spellcasters at your table? As a player, would you find this tactic unfair?

Edit: since I am the DM, "ask your DM" won't help me. I am just asking if it is "fair" once in a while, to make some fight a little more memorable. I have already had disarming NPCs disarm fighters (once or twice, not every single attack...) but it felt more "expected", maybe because of the name of the rule...

I always try to carry a component pouch and a focus on my PCs for this reason.

If you are using the disarm optional rule it is clearly allowed, although it is not that simple. RAW it is dropped at the casters feat and can then be picked up on his turn and used. For you or someone else to pick it up would be another action and it too would typically be contested since it is in his space, not yours. Another option if you have extra attack is to disarm, then shove, then move over it and pick it up as a free interaction.

As another option, if it is not being held it is doable by an arcane trickster with his invisible mage hand legerdemain as a bonus action. This is a clean one bonus action to get it (assuming the hand is already been cast) or as an action to cast mage hand followed by a bonus action ti use it, but still doable on one turn. IME in actual gameplay the most common way for a focus to get taken in combat - our of a case/pouch/belt by an arcane trickster.

You could also do it with a regular slight of hand, but that is typically going to be with disadvantage in combat.

 

[ECMO3]

The optional rule in the DMG allows something to a creature (and, implicitly, to PCs) that is normally something restricted to battlemasters.

Not really. The battlemaster maneuver is an attack, with full damage plus a battlemaster dice on top of it, and that damage (and extra damage) happens whether the disarm is successful or not. It is also a saving throw, not a contest. Disarm from the DMG replaces an attack which means no damage.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

RAW it is dropped at the casters feat and can then be picked up on his turn and used. For you or someone else to pick it up would be another action action and it too would typically be contested since it is in his space, not yours. Another option if you have extraattack is to disarm, then shove, then move over it and pick it up as a free interaction.

I hadn't heard of that take before. I'm not aware of any rule that prevents you from just using your interaction to pick it up from the ground in their space. Then again, it might be more interesting to have it fly a random direction and not necessarily end up in their space. Other than it being "dropped" (presumably into their space), we're in the realm of house rules I think.

 

[ECMO3]

I hadn't heard of that take before. I'm not aware of any rule that prevents you from just using your interaction to pick it up from the ground in their space. Then again, it might be more interesting to have it fly a random direction and not necessarily end up in their space. Other than it being "dropped" (presumably into their space), we're in the realm of house rules I think.

RAW it lands at his feet. You can't move into an enemy's space, it is therefore not logical that you can pick something up in his space for free. If it is under his feet how do physically get it without moving into his space? The center of your space (where you are) is 5 feet from the center of his space (where he is).

Now using mage hand, telekenisis, slight of hand, catapult spell or hitting it with a missile attack to deflect it or having you familiar go pick it up (assuming the enemy is medium or larger). That should all be allowed to separate the focus from the caster.

If you house rule it so it goes in a random direction then sure, but that would not be RAW or RAI I don't think.

 

[mrpopstar]

RAW it lands at his feet. You can't move into an enemy's space, it is therefore not logical that you can pick something up in his space for free. If it is under his feet how do physically get it without moving into his space? The center of your space (where you are) is 5 feet from the center of his space (where he is).

Now using mage hand, telekenisis, slight of hand, catapult spell or hitting it with a missile attack to deflect it or having you familiar go pick it up (assuming the enemy is medium or larger). That should all be allowed to separate the focus from the caster.

If you house rule it so it goes in a random direction then sure, but that would not be RAW or RAI I don't think.

Ah! I was second-guessing myself as to why I've never seen anyone just pick up a dropped/disarmed item. This makes sense.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

RAW it lands at his feet. You can't move into an enemy's space, it is therefore not logical that you can pick something up in his space for free. If it is under his feet how do physically get it without moving into his space? The center of your space (where you are) is 5 feet from the center of his space (where he is).

Now using mage hand, telekenisis, slight of hand, catapult spell or hitting it with a missile attack to deflect it or having you familiar go pick it up (assuming the enemy is medium or larger). That should all be allowed to separate the focus from the caster.

If you house rule it so it goes in a random direction then sure, but that would not be RAW or RAI I don't think.

Yeah, having it go flying is a house rule. But there is no rule saying you have to enter a space to pick up an object in it (nor any rule saying you don't have to enter the space).

That's why this is the territory of house rules or adjudication. Personally, I'd probably adjudicate that you can kick it away by default, and houserule that if you want to try to send it flying you can make the check with Disadvantage.