D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Maxperson]

Exactly, so either this is wrong, or I at least need to change how I view Charisma.

Trustworthiness and charisma are not the same thing. Think of how many people are wary of sales people, but still end up sold on the product.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm glad you like it. It may be what actually pushed me right out of 4e, the straw that broke my back.

It amazes me how people can be so easily broken by something so insignificant.

My issues with Tiefling.

Don't care.

I can't think of a single positive feature in the 4e/5e version.

Is it a matter of "can't" or simply a stubborn refusal by "old man yelling at clouds" to see why others may like the change?

 

[Scribe]

Trustworthiness and charisma are not the same thing. Think of how many people are wary of sales people, but still end up sold on the product.

Yeah, it's a different topic. Chalk it up to a gut feeling that I just don't like a combination of

How Charisma is described.
How Charisma is used.
The classes which depend on it.
It's application as a description for individuals, cultures, or species.

Within some pretty specific conditions, it's fine to me, but as a whole in 5e? It's a bit of a splinter, that I keep wanting to pick at.

 

[Scribe]

It amazes me how people can be so easily broken by something so insignificant.


Don't care.


Is it a matter of "can't" or simply a stubborn refusal by "old man yelling at clouds" to see why others may like the change?

I have my doubts it would matter to you what I would say. Take it easy.

 

[Aldarc]

I have my doubts it would matter to you what I would say. Take it easy.

Not particularly, no. I like the change. You hate the change. Our differences are irreconcilable.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Kinda. Metaphors don't have to be perfect to illustrate the point. The point is that having the higher bonus is unnecessary, but a lot of people have psyched themselves into thinking it is.

I'd rather have cool and fun feats than strive to get to 18 or 20 in my prime ability. The only reason my wizard hit 18 int during my last time playing was that I rolled a 16 and he got +1 for race. One of the feats that I wanted also gave +1 int, so he ended up with 18. That was at 4th level. At 12th level he still have an 18.

I think I said I reached 11th in a prior thread, but we hit 12th and all picked telepathic as a group, because it made sense for the campaign.

I love the progression you just described, but in my experience that just doesn't happen. If you lack a 20 in your prime, you push until you get it. I wish that wasn't true, but that's what I see. It's one of the reasons I'd like to banish ASIs after level 1 altogether.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Given that, all else being equal, I will always choose a faster car over a slower one, I kind of like the speed limit metaphor. It's true that I don't need the extra power, but it's awfully fun.

See, you dont need the extra speed to be effective, but it does make you MORE effective. That's what I'm saying.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I love the progression you just described, but in my experience that just doesn't happen. If you lack a 20 in your prime, you push until you get it. I wish that wasn't true, but that's what I see. It's one of the reasons I'd like to banish ASIs after level 1 altogether.

This is an issue caused by making feats optional and implementing them as a competitor for straight ASIs. Sure, I get that they didn't want characters in a featless game to just be weaker, so they did it this way; but then again, magic items are optional too and you don't get extra ASIs (or anything) if you don't use them. I like that your ability scores improve, but I don't like how it was implemented.

I think it would be more fun design if all feats were half feats. So you would boost your stat by a bit and also get another perk and there was no separate ASIs. Or alternatively not have any feats boost ability scores and have feats and ASIs to be two completely separate things and you couldn't trade one for another.

 

[Yaarel]

I don't like it that Warlocks are Charisma based either, but that's a whole other problem.

I view the Sorcerer as having a magical bloodline. In other words, magical "technologies" have engineered their bodies to perform magical tasks. The Sorcerers dont need to understand these technologies, but need experience to pilot their bodies under stress. Because Sorcerers literally use their own body as the source of their magical powers, it is one of the few character concepts where using Constitution as a spellcasting ability makes sense.

Warlock is inconsistent. They make a bargain with a magical creature. Maybe Charisma relates to skillfully navigating the personal relationship with this magical creature. But the rest of the flavor is inconsistent. Sometimes the Warlock is more like a Wizard where the Warlock learns how to do magic while the creature is a mentor. Sometimes the Warlock is more like a Sorcerer where the creature magically transforms the Warlock to do magic, so the Warlock doesnt really understand the magic and is "cheating" when being able to do magic. In this context, the abilities of Intelligence or Constitution could make sense.

If the Warlock is Charisma, maybe the magical creature did magically transform the Warlock, but the new magical nature requires the personality of the Warlock to guide this magic. Maybe while leveling, the Warlock needs to talk the magical creature into giving "upgrades" to expand the new magical nature to do more magical features.

In any case the flavor of the Warlock is ambiguous.

 

[ReshiIRE]

I think it would be more fun design if all feats were half feats. So you would boost your stat by a bit and also get another perk and there was no separate ASIs. Or alternatively not have any feats boost ability scores and have feats and ASIs to be two completely separate things and you couldn't trade one for another.

I have long thought that a potential 6E would make feats non optional, make it so that ASIs cannot be traded for feats and have most standard classes gain them at levels 4 (alongside an ASI), 6, 10, 14 and 18. That may be too much power, so a game may need to adjust for that, but considering that DMs can hand out a feat by their own discretion this may not be too huge of a concern.

Then, you would remove 'half-feats' and make them full feats and just adjust their power.

Fighters would get compensation in that they would go along a get a choice whether to get a feat or ASI for every time they can get one and a different level growth so that they don't get potentially too much more.

Then variant human and customised origin would remove gaining a feat at a start and humans would be reworked to actually be interesting mechanically.