D&D and the rising pandemic

[Eltab]

I think there is nothing now that will motivate the unvaccinated: FDA-approval, free and easy access, begging from family/doctors/politicians/ celebrities/faith leaders.

The only thing that has a chance now is hitting them with fines, risk losing employment, removing their kids from school, etc.

Persecutions and belittlings will accomplish nothing. Doing what hasn't worked yet, only more of it and trying harder, is not going to change their minds to think maybe this time things will improve.

What will help is a serious ego-busting change: fire the highly-credentialed but no-longer-credible leadership that brought us the existing "stop the spread" plan. Acknowledge that "the experts have determined" is such a turn-off that a whole block of people don't listen or care. From now on we have to think about 'what can people use at home, themselves, to deal with COVID?'

Knock off "but this time it's different!", tell the CDC &c bureaucracy to find the plans that were used to successfully contain and defeat other contagious diseases; adapt those plans to current circumstances.
Shut down the One True Way-ism surrounding the vaccines.
Order research into existing medicines that treat viruses and their symptoms (like DayQuil and other 'fights flu-like symptoms' off-the-shelf purchases) to learn what they can do to help vs COVID.
Start development of the obvious use-at-home tools (like a reliable Coronavirus-19 detection kit) that let people find out what their condition is.
Ask other countries what they are doing that we haven't done and how it worked / didn't (India was using human-dose Ivermectin last year; did they stop, and if so why?).
Acknowledge that we might find dead-ends and things that only help for a while, and be willing to course-correct when necessary.
Accept data from the field in real time, knowing it will start off rough-draft and get better with experience, instead of waiting months for perfectly-conducted clinical studies to be published - and be permanently weeks or months behind the conditions people are living through now.

In short, quit trying to prove Who's The Boss and get serious about doing Medicine.
We need a large toolbox full of techniques and methods and gear that gain public trust. The best way to gain said trust is when people see "this is working"; then they will support The Plan instead of fighting (or ignoring) it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Reinstate that old rule revoked in the 80's about media ethics would help.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Knock off "but this time it's different!", tell the CDC &c bureaucracy to find the plans that were used to successfully contain and defeat other contagious diseases; adapt those plans to current circumstances.

In prior pandemics, what worked was masking, contact tracing, distancing & quarantines, more attention to hygiene, and vaccinations, the bulk of which are currently held in low regard by far too many.

Shut down the One True Way-ism surrounding the vaccines.

They’re the best weapon we have against viral pathogens in general, and C19 in particular

Order research into existing medicines that treat viruses and their symptoms (like DayQuil and other 'fights flu-like symptoms' off-the-shelf purchases) to learn what they can do to help vs COVID.

That’s been done since day 1. That’s part of why the C19 vaccines we have were so quickly developed- the research on them grew out of the research on SARS & MERS.

Start development of the obvious use-at-home tools (like a reliable Coronavirus-19 detection kit) that let people find out what their condition is.

Big Pharma has been on that for a while.

Ask other countries what they are doing that we haven't done and how it worked / didn't (India was using human-dose Ivermectin last year; did they stop, and if so why?).

Other countries have tried:
1) stricter lockdowns. Won’t work here- some likely to resist with deadly force.
2) mandatory contact tracing apps. Constitutional issues and distrust of government are barriers here- we would likely need an actual constitutional amendment to get that off the ground.
3) aiming for natural herd immunity. Completely ineffective.
4) relying on personal responsibility. Their societies are more communal and less individualistic than ours.
5) stricter border controls. That worked for smaller island nations, we have too many large, unpatrolled/unpatrollable sections of our border to be effective.

As for India and Ivermectin, while it is true that the drug has certain antiviral properties, there are problems with adopting its use for treating C19. First of all, as I understand it, its known antiviral properties are not as good as other actual antivirals- they’re more like a n unintended beneficial side effect.

Second, thErie’s a world of difference between the human formulation of Ivermectin and the veterinary version. And it’s the latter that people are grabbing off the shelves and essentia poisoning themselves with.

Third, the reason why India is using it is because of its main use as an anti-parasitic. A huge number of Indian Covid patients also have parasitic afflictions which will depress their immune system. Treating these patients with ivermectin gets rid of the parasites and gives them a better chance of fighting off Covid with their body’s basic immune system, supplemented by whatever else their MDs and public health measures can throw at it.

Acknowledge that we might find dead-ends and things that only help for a while, and be willing to course-correct when necessary.

This is standard operating procedure.

Accept data from the field in real time, knowing it will start off rough-draft and get better with experience, instead of waiting months for perfectly-conducted clinical studies to be published - and be permanently weeks or months behind the conditions people are living through now.

That runs contrary to a host of legal and ethical issues, both domestic and internationally.

 

[J.Quondam]

We need a large toolbox full of techniques and methods and gear that gain public trust. The best way to gain said trust is when people see "this is working"; then they will support The Plan instead of fighting (or ignoring) it.

This so-called lack of trust exists in one hyper-propagandized, obnoxiously loud, and willfully ignorant segment of society. Most of the public already is on board, and has been for quite some time. That's why there's such strong majority support for policies like vaccine mandates and masking in businesses and schools.

Unfortunately that very special segment of society vehemently flouts commonsense guidelines, trusts random facebook posts over actual medical experts, and is apparently completely untroubled by filling up ICUs with their own dying corpses. They happily attend superspreader events, back anti-science legislation, and poison themselves with random substances-- all because they "don't trust" the people who are trying to help them!

This very special segment of society is a legitimate menace to society at this point, and i simply don't care about their feelings or concerns anymore. They've a had over a year and a half to get over it! Sorry, but I'm tired of keeping my life on hold, while they have their tantrums. I'm tired of them, and I'm tired of hearing how persecuted and misunderstood they pretend to be. I mean I've been doing my part to help get this pandemic over and done with, but those very special people-- and the cynical politicians and "news" profiteers that that pander to them-- keep getting in the way. Why?

It's way past time for them to fix themselves, because clearly the rest of civilized society can't do it for them.
When are THEY going to finally step up? When are THEY going to finally exhibit the responsibilities that come along with their precious freedoms?

 

[Umbran]

From now on we have to think about 'what can people use at home, themselves, to deal with COVID?'

...

In short, quit trying to prove Who's The Boss and get serious about doing Medicine.

If you are serious about dong Medicine... then "what you can use at home" is wear a mask, wash your hands, don't go where there are large numbers of people, and get vaccinated.

That's it.

 

[Mallus]

Persecutions and belittlings will accomplish nothing. Doing what hasn't worked yet, only more of it and trying harder, is not going to change their minds to think maybe this time things will improve.

What will help is a serious ego-busting change: fire the highly-credentialed but no-longer-credible leadership that brought us the existing "stop the spread" plan. Acknowledge that "the experts have determined" is such a turn-off that a whole block of people don't listen or care. From now on we have to think about 'what can people use at home, themselves, to deal with COVID?'

Knock off "but this time it's different!", tell the CDC &c bureaucracy to find the plans that were used to successfully contain and defeat other contagious diseases; adapt those plans to current circumstances.
Shut down the One True Way-ism surrounding the vaccines.

I’ve got a better idea.

Let them eat horse dewormer.

 

[CleverNickName]

@Umbran

I thought your wife (among others) might enjoy this:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. That fellow never went to med school at all, did he?

 

[Umbran]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. That fellow never went to med school at all, did he?

The dude in that video is completely correct. There's lots of medications you cannot use in an animal that's intended for human consumption, as many meds linger in the body for some time.

I'm doing a headdesk over the woman misreading the sentence.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The dude in that video is completely correct. There's lots of medications you cannot use in an animal that's intended for human consumption, as many meds linger in the body for some time.

And, FWIW, that’s for both medical AND legal reasons.

 

[CleverNickName]

I don't disagree; it just seemed the sort of question you would want to ask a doctor.