D&D General Survivor Dungeon Masters -- discussion

[CleverNickName]

For me, I only know Aabria from EXU...where she's a flatly terrible DM, so I voted against her.

Huh. I was the polar opposite: until I watched her work Exandria Unlimited, I had never even heard of her. But I was so impressed by her DM skills after EXU ended that I went back and watched her episodes on Dimension 20. I think she's one of the best I've watched.

 

[overgeeked]

Huh. I was the polar opposite: until I watched her work Exandria Unlimited, I had never even heard of her. But I was so impressed by her DM skills after EXU ended that I went back and watched her episodes on Dimension 20. I think she's one of the best I've watched.

Weird. So railroading, blatantly playing favorites, blatantly targeting characters, and insulting the players are good DM habits according to you?

ETA: Look at my first post in the thread. Post #4. That entire list of negative things at the end is stuff I watched Aabria do on EXU.

Here’s a review of EXU and her DMing style from a long-time DM...

 

[CleverNickName]

Weird. So railroading, blatantly playing favorites, blatantly targeting characters, and insulting the players are good DM habits according to you?

Take it easy, we're all friends here.

Maybe we should all take a moment to go back and re-read the first post in the thread, about how the folks we are discussing are real people and are to be treated with respect.

 

[Bolares]

So how about you, gentle voter: are you most likely to upvote a DM from having seen their name printed in and upon your favorite D&D books? or are you most likely to upvote a DM from having watched their performances on a livestream or podcast?

As you said on the OP of the survivor... this is a popularity contest. Recongizeable names go vor up or downvoting. Gygax is way more recognizeable than Arneson, but has his fair share of infamy too. Either as a businessman, or as a DM, with his weird and out of touch comments, or in morality (with some really bad posts about how the woman brain works, even in 2000), so he will be a good target for people who are less influenced by him. We have to remember, the game has existed for more time whitout Gygax at this point that it has existed under him, so a lot of people don't have the same reverence to him.

 

[Bolares]

Weird. So railroading, blatantly playing favorites, blatantly targeting characters, and insulting the players are good DM habits according to you?

woow, that's a take... I didn't read that at all. They were all game there for some ruder jokes and rough play. EXU isn't a workshop on how to DM, it was a show. Even the players she "insulted" came to her defense saying it was all ok for them in the moment.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Another question for everyone, regarding the Survivor: Dungeon Masters thread.

We are always going to vote for the names that we recognize, that's fairly obvious. But are you more likely to vote for a DM you recognize from a livestream or recorded gaming session? or a DM that you recognize from reputation or print?

Threads like that don't measure true overall ranked quality; for that, it's better for an individual to use a bracket system. In other words, they would have to choose, each round, between two alternatives. While you might not necessarily get the absolute correct result, you are more likely to get an individual's preference given that each time they would have to consider their choice in comparison to another choice (the reason that you don't always get the absolute preference is that there will be times when A > B > C > A).

Instead, you run into a certain issues:

1. Game theory problem because people are also downvoting. Imagine your favorite DM is ... I don't know, Greenwood. You know that Gygax has a certain amount of popularity so in addition to upvoting your favored DM, you will downvote individuals you think are good DMs that are competition for your choice.

2. Expressive votes. If you don't like "old school" play, or maybe you don't like what namesake did recently w/r/t TSR(cubed), then you will downvote Gygax. Not because you have any real knowledge of how his games ran, but in order to express an opinion about other things.

It would appear from looking at your thread that Gygax was eliminated early despite also receiving the most upvotes prior to being eliminated. This is a reflection of the game theory aspect of the thread (which I assume is intentional). Otherwise, it would be bizarre that one of the first DMs, one of the people (along with Arneson*) who invented the concept, and the person most responsible for evangeliing the concept would be eliminated before, inter alia, Aram Vartian, Satine Phoenix, Dale Friesen, Dave Walters, and Montgomery Martin. All of whom are (or may be) great DMs, but none of whom are Gygax. Yet.


*I say "along with" but Arneson showed and taught Gygax how to DM an RPG to begin with.

 

[overgeeked]

Take it easy, we're all friends here.

Maybe we should all take a moment to go back and re-read the first post in the thread, about how the folks we are discussing are real people and are to be treated with respect.

So treat people better than Aabria did at the EXU table. Got it.

 

[overgeeked]

woow, that's a take... I didn't read that at all.

Well, the person I quoted said Aabria was a great DM. And those are all things she did on EXU as the DM, so...

They were all game there for some ruder jokes and rough play.

They didn’t stop the game. Doesn’t mean they were okay with it. They were getting paid to be there and it was two of the players’ first time. Watch for all the times the OG cast looks around at each other when Aabria makes a bad call or gets nasty.

EXU isn't a workshop on how to DM

It’s a workshop in how not to DM.

Even the players she "insulted" came to her defense saying it was all ok for them in the moment.

You’re an actor hired to do a job and you hope to work for a production company again only some other new hire was a jerk to you. Do you publicly talk crap or do you be nice and polite?

 

[Maxperson]

Another question for everyone, regarding the Survivor: Dungeon Masters thread.

We are always going to vote for the names that we recognize, that's fairly obvious. But are you more likely to vote for a DM you recognize from a livestream or recorded gaming session? or a DM that you recognize from reputation or print?

Case in point, Gary Gygax vs. Dave Arneson. There aren't any recorded gaming sessions of these fellows, so it's probably rare for anyone to have seen them actually perform as Dungeon Masters. Now, Gary Gygax is arguably the most recognizable name in the hobby, but he didn't even make it into the top ten--which suggests that name recognition alone might not be the biggest driving factor. But on the other hand, Dave Arneson is the second-most recognizable name in the hobby, and he's the highest-scoring DM in the contest, and that suggests that name recognition really is the biggest driving factor, even if it's recognized as "the guy who wasn't Gary."

So how about you, gentle voter: are you most likely to upvote a DM from having seen their name printed in and upon your favorite D&D books? or are you most likely to upvote a DM from having watched their performances on a livestream or podcast?

And what of the few Dungeon Masters that can walk in both circles, who are both published authors and accomplished livestreamers, like Matt Colville and Matt Mercer? Does the ability to do both work in their favor, or against them?

Both?

For Gygax and Arneson, they're the pioneers and without them there are no other DMs to vote for. That elevates them in my opinion. For the rest, I go by the names that I know and have seen in action first, then ones I know by reputation.

 

[CleverNickName]

So treat people better than Aabria did at the EXU table. Got it.

I don't mind you having a different opinion than I do, @overgeeked. But let's dial back the trash-talk, okay? It's easy to forget that we are discussing real people here, not game theory and imaginary monsters.