D&D General Survivor Dungeon Masters -- discussion

[Mort]

Just what exactly is a positive threat?

Well to my son it would be "If you don't finish your homework you get a double serving of salad for dinner..."

But thanks for spotting the typo.

 

[Maxperson]

Well to my son it would be "If you don't finish your homework you get a double serving of salad for dinner..."

But thanks for spotting the typo.

I loved salad as a kid. Even liked broccoli.

 

[Mort]

As do I. But by the end she had burned every ounce of benefit of the doubt I was willing to give her. As I said a few times now, insulting the players burns infinite good will from me. That's a dick move.

From comments afterward, it seems pretty clear that both were treating the experience more as an acting gig (though a heavily improvised one) than a gaming experience - thus it's hard to judge it as a gaming one.

 

[CleverNickName]

Yeah, I've done something similar with a player. It may seem like the DM is taking agency form a player, but if the subject was talked about before the game, and the player was ok with the possibility of agency being taken away from them, because a temptation or other effect, I think it's completely ok to do it. Consent is key here. As we can't know if there was a talk between Aimee and Aabria, it can seem like Aabria's call was a dick move, but I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.

This just came up in my game, actually. Last week.

At the end of our last gaming session, one of the characters in my gaming group died. Like, for real: rolled a nat-1 on a death save, after having already failed one. It was one of the most popular characters in the group, too, the de-facto leader of the gang in most cases. We ended the game because of the late hour, and I let everyone at the table believe that the fallen character was gone for good.

In the days since, my wife and I have been talking about what to do with their character. They have made it clear that they would like to keep playing their deceased character if possible, so we've been crafting a story arc that is going to blow everyone's minds. (TL;DR: their character serves a draconic ancestor-god of renewal, rebirth, and refinement. So their character is about to rise from the ashes, phoenix-like, at the cost of changing their race to the UA Chromatic Dragonborn.)

All of this was collaborated and curated between me and the player, with full buy-in, but literally nobody else at the table is going to know anything about it. From the outside looking in, it is going to make me look like a jerk for "forcing" my wife to play "a completely different character," and that is the impact we both wanted. We want there to be relief that the beloved character has returned after a week of nail-biting, but we also want that return to carry weight, to demonstrate that the death meant something and return requires sacrifice.

But if a random person on the Internet sits in on tonight's game, they would 100% paint me as a "bad DM" for (seemingly) violating the player's agency and making willy-nilly changes to their character to suit my fancy.

 

[Bolares]

As I said a few times now, insulting the players burns infinite good will from me.

I don't know... I guess I just don't see what happened the same way you did. I didn't even like Aabria's DM style that much (to many needless rolls for me), but I just don't see all this abusive behavior you are talking about.

 

[Bolares]

All of this was collaborated and curated between me and the player, with full buy-in, but literally nobody else at the table is going to know anything about it.

I'd recommend you two to create another character, with sheet and everything for her. Just as a diversion

 

[CleverNickName]

I'd recommend you two to create another character, with sheet and everything for her. Just as a diversion

Waaaay ahead of you.

I can't wait to see the look on their faces when the casket bursts into flame.

 

[overgeeked]

From comments afterward, it seems pretty clear that both were treating the experience more as an acting gig (though a heavily improvised one) than a gaming experience - thus it's hard to judge it as a gaming one.

Sure. But the vast majority of players...especially new players...won't have that context. It's far easier to find EXU on YouTube than it is to find whatever social media posts where they made those comments. Players and people who want to be players...and people who want to DM will see EXU as a gaming experience, not an acting job. They'll see that laundry list of bad DMing habits as something to emulate. With the rubber stamp of approval from Critical Role. Whether those of us already in the hobby, or in the hobby longer than most of the CR cast have been alive, like it or not, Critical Role, and by extension EXU, are basically the place where most people first come into contact with D&D. And they'll see this as an example of good DMing. Which it is not.

 

[Bolares]

Sure. But the vast majority of players...especially new players...won't have that context. It's far easier to find EXU on YouTube than it is to find whatever social media posts where they made those comments. Players and people who want to be players...and people who want to DM will see EXU as a gaming experience, not an acting job. They'll see that laundry list of bad DMing habits as something to emulate. With the rubber stamp of approval from Critical Role. Whether those of us already in the hobby, or in the hobby longer than most of the CR cast have been alive, like it or not, Critical Role, and by extension EXU, are basically the place where most people first come into contact with D&D. And they'll see this as an example of good DMing. Which it is not.

I don't think CR has the whole responsability of being the world's tutorial on how to play DnD... It's a show that uses RPG's to tell their stories. If someone uses them and only them as a guide on how to play the game, it's on the gamer not on CR.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't think CR has the whole responsability of being the world's tutorial on how to play DnD... It's a show that uses RPG's to tell their stories. If someone uses them and only them as a guide on how to play the game, it's on the gamer not on CR.

I actually agree. They shouldn't have that responsibility. But they do. They didn't ask for it, but they have it. Critical Role is the public face of D&D. They are the first contact point for a whole lot of the new players to the game over the last six years. And is so influential that there's even a phenomenon named after the CR DM and other DMs trying to emulate his style. As long-time gamers we all hope that CR isn't the one and only source someone has for D&D or RPGs (not that they're bad, just that D&D and the hobby are so much more than just CR), but we don't really have any say in that.

For example, the official D&D YouTube channel has a video on How to Play D&D...it has 60,780 views. That's a lot. Episode 1 of EXU has 2.1 million views. CR has more impact, more reach, and gets more views than the official D&D channel. A lot of people are learning about D&D from CR...and learning how to play D&D from CR. A thread here about DM practices? In its life it might get a few thousand views...all from dedicated gamers who already know about this place.